Consciousness and action

[agnosticatheist]

Apparently, consciousness is not necessary to explain an organism undertaking various actions. The neuronal correlates in the brain are sufficient to explain how an organism undertakes various actions.

So, it would seem that our (human's) consciousness is merely along for the ride.

Where does this fit into religion?

If our decisions are made in the brain and not by a paranormal soul, how can we be held accountable in an afterlife for our decisions? The physical brain made those decisions, not the soul.

[Divine Insight]

I'm just about to walk out the door here so I need to make this brief. But there are some point I would like to make or questions I would like to ask:

Apparently, consciousness is not necessary to explain an organism undertaking various actions. The neuronal correlates in the brain are sufficient to explain how an organism undertakes various actions.

I think you need to better define what you mean by "consciousness".

Do you mean an acute awareness of the fact that one exists as well as being aware of what they are doing and that they can choose their actions consciously?

Sentience might be a better term here than mere consciousness.

I would say that my cat is conscious, but not quite as sentient as myself. Although I think it has some level of it's own sentience or self-awareness to a point. Just not nearly as sophisticated as a human's sentience.

So, it would seem that our (human's) consciousness is merely along for the ride.

That could indeed be true.

Where does this fit into religion?

If our decisions are made in the brain and not by a paranormal soul, how can we be held accountable in an afterlife for our decisions? The physical brain made those decisions, not the soul.

This is quite tricky.

First allow me to point out that not all religions hold everyone responsible for their actions. You are most likely thinking in terms of the Abrahamic religions that are overly obsessed with pointing fingers of blame and holding people responsible for their actions.

Secondly, strange as it may sound the brain is not responsible for all decisions.

You said it yourself that "Consciousness" (or alert sentience) is along for the ride.

But wait a minute!

If alert sentience is "along for the ride" and it can "choose" which of the brain's decisions to act upon, then perhaps this mysterious "sentience" is actually in charge of the brain?

Whether being an "emergent property" as the secularists claim, or some mysterious "soul" that resides in some spiritual domain should be irrelevant in terms of answering this question:

"Is sentience merely along for the ride? Or is it in control of the ride?"

If it's in control of the ride, then it's not just along for the ride.

[ventura23]

I believe most of our actions are caused by our emotions, not the brain or the soul.
Ventura

[Goat]

I believe most of our actions are caused by our emotions, not the brain or the soul.
Ventura

Emotions are caused by the brain.. so..

[dianaiad]

I believe most of our actions are caused by our emotions, not the brain or the soul.
Ventura

Emotions are caused by the brain.. so..

"Caused by," or 'expressed by?"

Interesting question, this thread brings up.

[Goat]

I believe most of our actions are caused by our emotions, not the brain or the soul.
Ventura

Emotions are caused by the brain.. so..

"Caused by," or 'expressed by?"

Interesting question, this thread brings up.

And what do you see as the difference? When you use those terms, what do you mean by those terms.

[sf]

Apparently, consciousness is not necessary to explain an organism undertaking various actions. The neuronal correlates in the brain are sufficient to explain how an organism undertakes various actions.

So, it would seem that our (human's) consciousness is merely along for the ride.

Where does this fit into religion?

If our decisions are made in the brain and not by a paranormal soul, how can we be held accountable in an afterlife for our decisions? The physical brain made those decisions, not the soul.

What is consciousness if not simply the inner-workings of the brain?

[dianaiad]

I believe most of our actions are caused by our emotions, not the brain or the soul.
Ventura

Emotions are caused by the brain.. so..

"Caused by," or 'expressed by?"

Interesting question, this thread brings up.

And what do you see as the difference? When you use those terms, what do you mean by those terms.

I dunno. I guess that's why I was asking.

If there is a separate spirit, a 'guiding other," then the brain would be the expressor of emotions rather than the cause, wouldn't it?

It is...when one's heart skips a beat when one's 'crush' enters the room, what's the cause of the emotion...the skipped beat? or is that skipped beat the expression?

If we step back and realize that the little "jump' of excitement one feels at such moments is actually the body responding to signals from the brain, based upon input (such as sight or sound, say), then what is it that decides what 'input' the brain acts upon?

However, if there is no such spirit, what is it that the brain uses to decide which neurons to fire at which other ones, to cause one's body to react?

Hmmmnnnn.

I believe that there is a spirit, of course, but the ultimate question still exists: how much influence does/can a spirit have?

[Goat]

I believe most of our actions are caused by our emotions, not the brain or the soul.
Ventura

Emotions are caused by the brain.. so..

"Caused by," or 'expressed by?"

Interesting question, this thread brings up.

And what do you see as the difference? When you use those terms, what do you mean by those terms.

I dunno. I guess that's why I was asking.

If there is a separate spirit, a 'guiding other," then the brain would be the expressor of emotions rather than the cause, wouldn't it?

It is...when one's heart skips a beat when one's 'crush' enters the room, what's the cause of the emotion...the skipped beat? or is that skipped beat the expression?

If we step back and realize that the little "jump' of excitement one feels at such moments is actually the body responding to signals from the brain, based upon input (such as sight or sound, say), then what is it that decides what 'input' the brain acts upon?

However, if there is no such spirit, what is it that the brain uses to decide which neurons to fire at which other ones, to cause one's body to react?

Hmmmnnnn.

I believe that there is a spirit, of course, but the ultimate question still exists: how much influence does/can a spirit have?

What kind of evidence would there be if there was a 'spirit' guiding the brain? As far as I can see, that is a question that can not be answered.

For that matter, the question 'what is spirit' can not be answered in a quantifiable and testable manner either. So, I don't see that question as having meaning.

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 8 by dianaiad]

When it comes to 'deciding which neurons to fire', it's a recursive process. One neuron fires other neurons, which fire other neurons, etc. Senses might themselves externally cause neurons to fire.

Reflexes (in biology) as opposed to reactions (in biology) don't even ask the brain - they are triggered and respond well before the brain even knows what's happening. For instance - if their hand is on something suitably hot, most would reflexively jerk their hand away. Often they will notice the reflex before they've noticed the heat.