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micatala
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:23 pm  Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights Reply with quote

I offer this thread as a Christian who supports gay rights as an admittedly forward challenge to my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Acts Ch. 14 and 15, Luke describes James and the other Apostles discussions which led them to exempt Gentiles from well over 99% of the Law of Moses. The main reason they did so was to avoid putting an excessive burden on Gentiles. Implicit in their decision was the issue that expecting everyone to follow these traditional rules, rules that many saw as outdated, would be a drag on the new movement.

Today, we see polls like this one that indicate many young people leaving the church or the faith because of the negative attitude displayed by many religious people towards gays and lesbians.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26/millennials-gay-unaffiliated-church-rel...


1) Would it not make sense for Christians to lay aside anti-gay rhetoric, including quoting of Biblical verses that are claimed to condemn homosexuality, if for no other reason than it is counter-productive to evangelism?

2) Does not Jesus' own ministry, and the actions of the Apostles as described in Acts 15 give ample precedent for laying aside Biblical verses that seem to allude to homosexuality?


I will note that Christianity has by and large already set aside many precepts now seen to be archaic, including the idea that women should never speak in church, and that we should simply accept any and all governments as instituted by God and worthy of our obedience. The Declaration of Independence, in particular, repudiates this notion, outlined by Paul in his letters.

I will note that Jesus is quoted in the gospels as explicitly laying aside aspects of the law, and that he was criticized by many of his fellow believers, especially those who were arguably most religious, for doing so.

I will point out that the faith of those conservative believers rather quickly became a small minority as compared to Christianity.


It really comes down to this:

3) Is non-acceptance of homosexuality so central to Christianity that Christians should cling to traditional notions against homosexuality, or can we lay those aside as tangential to the central message of the gospel?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 291: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:21 pm
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[Replying to Clownboat]

Hello Clownboat,

My “circles and circles” conclusion was based on the fact that one cannot but run himself into circles when “preaching” (application of God's truth to a discussion) is left out. Are children able to solve problems among themselves while rejecting guidance from their parents? Why shouldn't I include the Parent of parents in our discussion?

Thank you for clarifying things. Speaking about willingness to have a mind-change, what kind of change are you speaking of? Shouldn't our willingness be dependent on the nature of the change demanded whether good or evil? Shouldn't we always be careful not to be deceived into making the wrong change?

As for as my giving a compelling case is concerned, I am only able to share vital facts of which you or I have the choice to accept or reject. I hope that you please tolerate my speaking my native Christian language called the gospel. My speech is not irrelevant to the discussed topic because discussion of the topic brings us to this point for the needed solution.

It appears that you and I have issues in common. I too am tired of and fed up with years and years of the “same ol same-ol” religious and emotional stuff that appears holy but void of the transforming power that the gospel is capable of. Emotions are not the primary driving force behind Biblical religion as properly exercised. Truth is. But the truth must be properly handled.

May I ask how well have you gotten to know Him that invited you to the banquet beyond the two decades of engagement with congregational rules and traditions? Paul states, “ For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).” Had your relationship any significant personal meaning and empowerment beyond all the “stuff?”

There's one thing for which I may commend you. As Jesus says He would have the believer cold or hot and not lukewarm (Revelation 3:15-18), your choice to become cold was far better than to have continued in an effort whose productivity had dried up on your behalf. The cold state takes you out of the deceptive complacency of lukewarmness.

But there's also the danger of knowing Him very well only to be lured away to another gospel. I do not place you in that category. All un-biblical paths including atheism have their own “gospels.” Regardless what people may have done in the name of the gospel to embarrass it because of error (I have seen much too much of this), God that calls us is totally unworthy of anyone's disillusioned impression. There are unfortunately too many that have followed that path. It is He, not religious people that died for us to give us life!

Despite the countless paths that await our choice, none are worthy for any to forsake God's calling to each of us for His unique good purpose. Rejection or abandonment will neither invalidate it nor relieve of responsibility to accept God's call. Too much good awaits us. Even if this speech appears to mean nothing to you now, it will at some time. May God bless you!

If there's another place better suited for us to engage in a conversation similar to the above please inform me.

Take care,
Earl

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 292: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:00 pm
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Erexsaur wrote:
...the transforming power that the gospel is capable of. Emotions are not the primary driving force behind Biblical religion as properly exercised. .... Had your relationship any significant personal meaning and empowerment beyond all the “stuff?”

There's one thing for which I may commend you. As Jesus says He would have the believer cold or hot and not lukewarm (Revelation 3:15-18), your choice to become cold was far better than to have continued in an effort whose productivity had dried up on your behalf. The cold state takes you out of the deceptive complacency of lukewarmness....

Yes, the transformative power of Jesus Christ and the Gospel! I believe in that. That power unleashes the ability to look beyond the petty rules and prejudices and to the core of humanity, embracing people for who they really are, not according to some petty label of ethnic or national origin, or gender preference... beyond whatever status their jobs might confer, beyond anything but love and acceptance. That is the message of Jesus and the Gospel.

Because of that spirit and message I've found myself able, at least at times, to look past my own prejudices and failures to understand, beyond labels biases and social disapproval. It is that spirit of Christ and the Gospel that empowers us to let go of the homophobic prejudices of our youth, our traditions, our bigotry, and embrace our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters as equal partners in the family of man.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 293: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:08 pm
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[quote="Erexsaur"]
[Replying to Clownboat]

Hello Clownboat,

Quote:
My “circles and circles” conclusion was based on the fact that one cannot but run himself into circles when “preaching” (application of God's truth to a discussion) is left out.

I care not to address this due to the fact that this is a debate site and preaching is against the rules (unless in Holy Huddle etc..)

Quote:
Are children able to solve problems among themselves while rejecting guidance from their parents?

Yes. No idea why you ask such a question though.
Quote:
Why shouldn't I include the Parent of parents in our discussion?

For the same reason you should not include Bigfoot, aliens or Loch Ness. Before you accepted a claim that bigfoot broke into your house, would you not first want to have bigfoot evidenced?

Quote:
Thank you for clarifying things. Speaking about willingness to have a mind-change, what kind of change are you speaking of?

I hold position A. You just made a compelling argument for position B. I will now amend my thinking. That kind.

Quote:
Shouldn't our willingness be dependent on the nature of the change demanded whether good or evil?

That would be impossible. Good and evil are subjective terms. An act deemed evil in America, may not be considered evil in another culture for example.

Quote:
Shouldn't we always be careful not to be deceived into making the wrong change?

Examine everything carefully, and hold on to that which is good. Don't be afraid of changing your mind, but do be skeptical.

Quote:
As for as my giving a compelling case is concerned, I am only able to share vital facts of which you or I have the choice to accept or reject. I hope that you please tolerate my speaking my native Christian language called the gospel. My speech is not irrelevant to the discussed topic because discussion of the topic brings us to this point for the needed solution.

I have read the Bible from front to back and attended Christians schools from start to finish. I do not desire to hear your preferred take on whatever scripture you want to bring up. I'm willing to listen, but I would so much rather debate what Erexsaur has to say.

Quote:
It appears that you and I have issues in common. I too am tired of and fed up with years and years of the “same ol same-ol” religious and emotional stuff that appears holy but void of the transforming power that the gospel is capable of. Emotions are not the primary driving force behind Biblical religion as properly exercised. Truth is. But the truth must be properly handled.

Perhaps, but perhaps not.

Quote:
May I ask how well have you gotten to know Him that invited you to the banquet beyond the two decades of engagement with congregational rules and traditions? Paul states, “ For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).” Had your relationship any significant personal meaning and empowerment beyond all the “stuff?”

I was one of the most serious Christians you would have ever met. I literally went to church 7 times a week (services, drama, evangelizing and praise and worship band). I also attended Christians school K-12.

Quote:
There's one thing for which I may commend you. As Jesus says He would have the believer cold or hot and not lukewarm (Revelation 3:15-18), your choice to become cold was far better than to have continued in an effort whose productivity had dried up on your behalf. The cold state takes you out of the deceptive complacency of lukewarmness.

Don't patronize me nor fool yourself. I was freed of my religious beliefs. Tell me that a god will spew me out of his mouth if you would like, but I am now a better person (more loving and accepting). I'm still a good Christian man (how I act for the most part), I just don't hold the beliefs anymore. Please leave the 'scare tactics' to the terrorists, IMO, they should have no place in a real religion.

Quote:
But there's also the danger of knowing Him very well only to be lured away to another gospel. I do not place you in that category. All un-biblical paths including atheism have their own “gospels.” Regardless what people may have done in the name of the gospel to embarrass it because of error (I have seen much too much of this), God that calls us is totally unworthy of anyone's disillusioned impression. There are unfortunately too many that have followed that path. It is He, not religious people that died for us to give us life!

Saying atheism has it's own gospel is just you attempting to level the playing field. What next, it takes faith too?
I would need to be able to consider 'off', a TV channel in order to take what you said above seriously.

Quote:
Despite the countless paths that await our choice, none are worthy for any to forsake God's calling to each of us for His unique good purpose. Rejection or abandonment will neither invalidate it nor relieve of responsibility to accept God's call. Too much good awaits us. Even if this speech appears to mean nothing to you now, it will at some time. May God bless you!

It seems as though you cannot find purpose for your life. You seem to need a god concept in order to supply you with purpose. I am truly sad for you and hope that one day you will also be set free. Life is beautiful and worth living, I hope some day you will see this. Perhaps some day you will also be able to love and accept members of other religions, or no religion, or those that have different sexual preferences than what you yourself might prefer. Here's to hoping for a more Christlike Earl to come.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 294: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:28 am
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Re: Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

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micatala wrote:

I offer this thread as a Christian who supports gay rights as an admittedly forward challenge to my brothers and sisters in Christ.


Woe, .. who you calling 'brother and sister'? What if I am a woman trapped inside a mans body ey? Do you know how deeply wounding your reference to me as a brother would be? I would not have you call me a sister in Christ either, for what if I am a man trapped inside a woman's body ey? Just call me "Genderless in Christ" or I will haul you before a genderless judge for breaking the law. NO MORE this Brothers and sisters stuff, aren't we one in Christ?
Is there male of female in Heaven? Huh, .. is there?

It's the law now, so you better watch what gender you attribute to people. And no more words like 'mother or father either'!

micatala wrote:
In Acts Ch. 14 and 15, Luke describes James and the other Apostles discussions which led them to exempt Gentiles from well over 99% of the Law of Moses. The main reason they did so was to avoid putting an excessive burden on Gentiles. Implicit in their decision was the issue that expecting everyone to follow these traditional rules, rules that many saw as outdated, would be a drag on the new movement.


Jesus came to remove all the religious practices, Jews or Greeks (gentiles). He came to reveal our Father to us 'Jews and Gentiles', as a real conscious Person, not some Jewish religious interpretation of Him. Christ's entire purpose here was to fulfill the law not break even the least of them, and then roll it all up into a tiny ball;

Romans 13:9
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


This was NOT to open the door for active thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, rapists, child molesters to 'love' their neighbor the way they want to interpret it.
Neighbor A to neighbor B in the back yard: "Good morning George, the wife just told me (you noticed I still used the word 'wife', which soon be a criminal hate act) that you gave us this beautiful cute pure-bred poodle. It must have cost you a fortune!"

Neighbor B: "Oh it was nothing really, I just love you guys so much so I wanted to show it ! It's my way of saying thanks and I love you in Jesus name!"

Big local Newspaper Add: "Lost pure-bred poodle! One of kind and really missed $500.00 Reward!"

Hey, let's not discriminate against kleptomaniacs either, OK?

micatala wrote:
Today, we see polls like this one that indicate many young people leaving the church or the faith because of the negative attitude displayed by many religious people towards gays and lesbians.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26/millennials-gay-unaffiliated-church-rel...


What are the young homosexual persons (you see, I used 'persons' not to offend the gender-confused young people!) doing in a Bible based Christian church anyways? You would never find me in a gay and lesbian club, church, debating site, because I know there would be trouble if I did. I know my place, why should I FORCE my straightness on others, right?

micatala wrote:
1) Would it not make sense for Christians to lay aside anti-gay rhetoric, including quoting of Biblical verses that are claimed to condemn homosexuality, if for no other reason than it is counter-productive to evangelism?


See, there it goes, the demands: Bible based Christian churches should now raise the Rainbow flag above their churches and rip half the Bible pages that deals with sin right out of there!
Why not just hold a gay-bonfire night at every Christian Church burning all the Bibles while prancing in line around the bonfire along with the homosexual young persons?
Would that suffice?
How about the Jesus pictures? I can just see the pretty blond blue eyed Jew wearing a rainbow color robe! But I bet leaving those Jesus on the cross idols would be OK to leave there, you know, with all the wounds, blood, with the skin and meat hanging off of him would be the only way He could be tolerated in a Gay-Christian-Church ay?
And have a Burning-Man event on Tuesday nights so they could lit up the 'Man-on-the-cross'. That should evangelize the neighborhood young and old gay persons right?

micatala wrote:
2) Does not Jesus' own ministry, and the actions of the Apostles as described in Acts 15 give ample precedent for laying aside Biblical verses that seem to allude to homosexuality?


Oh, you mean this:
Acts 15:6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

That by my mouth the gentiles (homosexuals, thieves, murderers, adulterers, greedy selfish Jew and Gentiles, would hear the gospel and believe! NOT skip over the sin parts of the gospels. I guess some people read the Bible with rainbow colored glasses which block the lines of information that they don't want to see!?

micatala wrote:
I will note that Christianity has by and large already set aside many precepts now seen to be archaic, including the idea that women should never speak in church, and that we should simply accept any and all governments as instituted by God and worthy of our obedience. The Declaration of Independence, in particular, repudiates this notion, outlined by Paul in his letters.


Yes, any and all governments on this earth are instituted by the god of this world Lucifer, and especially worthy of obedience by homosexuals. I mean who do you thing 'instituted' our gay president and Michael Robinson the football player as his partner into office? You don't actually believe it was our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ do you? It was Lucifer, and the timing was perfect. Right as "gay marriage was instituted" in this here United States just before he leaves office.

micatala wrote:
I will note that Jesus is quoted in the gospels as explicitly laying aside aspects of the law, and that he was criticized by many of his fellow believers, especially those who were arguably most religious, for doing so.


Yes as I have been saying, the religious hated Jesus for taking the law from their grips, and replaced it with a simple command; "Love your neighbor as yourself", .. rendering them powerless against the people. Why do you think the Pope is worshipped like a god, it's because of religion. Religion demands blind godly worship, and they will demand this with threats, torture, imprisonment and even death. And not just any death, but the most painful and horrific types of death.

micatala wrote:
I will point out that the faith of those conservative believers rather quickly became a small minority as compared to Christianity.


Yes, I agree that the Christian Religion in the past 1,700 years has just about wiped the Followers/Disciples of Christ off the face of the earth and made them a very, very tiny minority. But I guess that is not enough for you is it? You want the last few wiped out too, and to do that you know you will have to destroy the Bible, or rewrite it in 'rainbow', where sin is glorified. Where the rainbow members will come up to the pulpit and confess their wickedness they have done throughout the week (selfies included) and the genderless folk will cheer them on and congratulate them for it. Almost the same as people do now, only with a little rainbow-adjustments, .. right?

micatala wrote:
It really comes down to this:

3) Is non-acceptance of homosexuality so central to Christianity that Christians should cling to traditional notions against homosexuality, or can we lay those aside as tangential to the central message of the gospel?


Lets see what is the central message of the gospel? Is it: "Come to church and reveal all your sins so we can all enjoy them. Let the men take of their oh-so-traditional male garb and put on them tutus, pantyhose, and dance with total abandon showing true love (Eros, not Agape) to your neighbor. And remember "safe sex" .. the condoms are right in front of you where the Bibles once used to be!"

Or

"Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand!", .. which?

Oh US of A, how God shed His grace on thee, from sea to shining sea. You were the envy of all nations. We risked our lives coming here, and praised God for the chance to be your citizens. We were honored to be now called an American, proudly showing off our US Passports as we went back visiting our motherlands. "Oh, you are now a big shot ay? A US Citizen, so tell me, how is .. Are the store shelves really that packed? Tell me about the malls, I heard you could buy anything from anywhere in the world, it's all there!?" Yep, and now you let the queers (as a fellow genderless debater called itself) take it all from you!

Woe to the Impenitent Cities/Countries

Matthew 11:20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

23 And you, Capernaum (could just as well be said; USA), who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”


I remember the day we got off the plane in New York, like if I went to Heaven. The city, the cars, the stores, the cars, and oh yea, did I mention the cars? Wow! So this quote regarding Capernaum, for me it represents the United States of America! And I just know Sodom nor the surrounding cities could of have it any better, .. not even close.

So no, you are not my Brother or Sister in Christ, more like a voice of pending destruction and darkness. The destroyer of solid foundation that has brought Jew and Arab, and German, and Gypsies, white and black and hundreds of nations together living as one, but no, you want to turn this country into something far worse than Sodom and Gomorrah, and the voice of Jesus condemns such a ones. So my suggestion is: "Take the Warning from the mouth of our Lord Jesus, the Woe while you have time!"

Matthew 12:36
But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.


And don't think that your Rainbow Homosexual Christian Church will in some sneaky way escape judgment!? Repent, for the Day is at hand!

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 295: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:41 am
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Re: Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

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arian wrote:

micatala wrote:

I offer this thread as a Christian who supports gay rights as an admittedly forward challenge to my brothers and sisters in Christ.


Woe, .. who you calling 'brother and sister'? What if I am a woman trapped inside a mans body ey? Do you know how deeply wounding your reference to me as a brother would be? I would not have you call me a sister in Christ either, for what if I am a man trapped inside a woman's body ey? Just call me "Genderless in Christ" or I will haul you before a genderless judge for breaking the law. NO MORE this Brothers and sisters stuff, aren't we one in Christ?
Is there male of female in Heaven? Huh, .. is there?

It's the law now, so you better watch what gender you attribute to people. And no more words like 'mother or father either'!

micatala wrote:
In Acts Ch. 14 and 15, Luke describes James and the other Apostles discussions which led them to exempt Gentiles from well over 99% of the Law of Moses. The main reason they did so was to avoid putting an excessive burden on Gentiles. Implicit in their decision was the issue that expecting everyone to follow these traditional rules, rules that many saw as outdated, would be a drag on the new movement.


Jesus came to remove all the religious practices, Jews or Greeks (gentiles). He came to reveal our Father to us 'Jews and Gentiles', as a real conscious Person, not some Jewish religious interpretation of Him. Christ's entire purpose here was to fulfill the law not break even the least of them, and then roll it all up into a tiny ball;

Romans 13:9
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


This was NOT to open the door for active thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, rapists, child molesters to 'love' their neighbor the way they want to interpret it.
Neighbor A to neighbor B in the back yard: "Good morning George, the wife just told me (you noticed I still used the word 'wife', which soon be a criminal hate act) that you gave us this beautiful cute pure-bred poodle. It must have cost you a fortune!"

Neighbor B: "Oh it was nothing really, I just love you guys so much so I wanted to show it ! It's my way of saying thanks and I love you in Jesus name!"

Big local Newspaper Add: "Lost pure-bred poodle! One of kind and really missed $500.00 Reward!"

Hey, let's not discriminate against kleptomaniacs either, OK?

micatala wrote:
Today, we see polls like this one that indicate many young people leaving the church or the faith because of the negative attitude displayed by many religious people towards gays and lesbians.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26/millennials-gay-unaffiliated-church-rel...


What are the young homosexual persons (you see, I used 'persons' not to offend the gender-confused young people!) doing in a Bible based Christian church anyways? You would never find me in a gay and lesbian club, church, debating site, because I know there would be trouble if I did. I know my place, why should I FORCE my straightness on others, right?

micatala wrote:
1) Would it not make sense for Christians to lay aside anti-gay rhetoric, including quoting of Biblical verses that are claimed to condemn homosexuality, if for no other reason than it is counter-productive to evangelism?


See, there it goes, the demands: Bible based Christian churches should now raise the Rainbow flag above their churches and rip half the Bible pages that deals with sin right out of there!
Why not just hold a gay-bonfire night at every Christian Church burning all the Bibles while prancing in line around the bonfire along with the homosexual young persons?
Would that suffice?
How about the Jesus pictures? I can just see the pretty blond blue eyed Jew wearing a rainbow color robe! But I bet leaving those Jesus on the cross idols would be OK to leave there, you know, with all the wounds, blood, with the skin and meat hanging off of him would be the only way He could be tolerated in a Gay-Christian-Church ay?
And have a Burning-Man event on Tuesday nights so they could lit up the 'Man-on-the-cross'. That should evangelize the neighborhood young and old gay persons right?

micatala wrote:
2) Does not Jesus' own ministry, and the actions of the Apostles as described in Acts 15 give ample precedent for laying aside Biblical verses that seem to allude to homosexuality?


Oh, you mean this:
Acts 15:6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

That by my mouth the gentiles (homosexuals, thieves, murderers, adulterers, greedy selfish Jew and Gentiles, would hear the gospel and believe! NOT skip over the sin parts of the gospels. I guess some people read the Bible with rainbow colored glasses which block the lines of information that they don't want to see!?

micatala wrote:
I will note that Christianity has by and large already set aside many precepts now seen to be archaic, including the idea that women should never speak in church, and that we should simply accept any and all governments as instituted by God and worthy of our obedience. The Declaration of Independence, in particular, repudiates this notion, outlined by Paul in his letters.


Yes, any and all governments on this earth are instituted by the god of this world Lucifer, and especially worthy of obedience by homosexuals. I mean who do you thing 'instituted' our gay president and Michael Robinson the football player as his partner into office? You don't actually believe it was our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ do you? It was Lucifer, and the timing was perfect. Right as "gay marriage was instituted" in this here United States just before he leaves office.

micatala wrote:
I will note that Jesus is quoted in the gospels as explicitly laying aside aspects of the law, and that he was criticized by many of his fellow believers, especially those who were arguably most religious, for doing so.


Yes as I have been saying, the religious hated Jesus for taking the law from their grips, and replaced it with a simple command; "Love your neighbor as yourself", .. rendering them powerless against the people. Why do you think the Pope is worshipped like a god, it's because of religion. Religion demands blind godly worship, and they will demand this with threats, torture, imprisonment and even death. And not just any death, but the most painful and horrific types of death.

micatala wrote:
I will point out that the faith of those conservative believers rather quickly became a small minority as compared to Christianity.


Yes, I agree that the Christian Religion in the past 1,700 years has just about wiped the Followers/Disciples of Christ off the face of the earth and made them a very, very tiny minority. But I guess that is not enough for you is it? You want the last few wiped out too, and to do that you know you will have to destroy the Bible, or rewrite it in 'rainbow', where sin is glorified. Where the rainbow members will come up to the pulpit and confess their wickedness they have done throughout the week (selfies included) and the genderless folk will cheer them on and congratulate them for it. Almost the same as people do now, only with a little rainbow-adjustments, .. right?

micatala wrote:
It really comes down to this:

3) Is non-acceptance of homosexuality so central to Christianity that Christians should cling to traditional notions against homosexuality, or can we lay those aside as tangential to the central message of the gospel?


Lets see what is the central message of the gospel? Is it: "Come to church and reveal all your sins so we can all enjoy them. Let the men take of their oh-so-traditional male garb and put on them tutus, pantyhose, and dance with total abandon showing true love (Eros, not Agape) to your neighbor. And remember "safe sex" .. the condoms are right in front of you where the Bibles once used to be!"

Or

"Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand!", .. which?

Oh US of A, how God shed His grace on thee, from sea to shining sea. You were the envy of all nations. We risked our lives coming here, and praised God for the chance to be your citizens. We were honored to be now called an American, proudly showing off our US Passports as we went back visiting our motherlands. "Oh, you are now a big shot ay? A US Citizen, so tell me, how is .. Are the store shelves really that packed? Tell me about the malls, I heard you could buy anything from anywhere in the world, it's all there!?" Yep, and now you let the queers (as a fellow genderless debater called itself) take it all from you!

Woe to the Impenitent Cities/Countries

Matthew 11:20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

23 And you, Capernaum (could just as well be said; USA), who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”


I remember the day we got off the plane in New York, like if I went to Heaven. The city, the cars, the stores, the cars, and oh yea, did I mention the cars? Wow! So this quote regarding Capernaum, for me it represents the United States of America! And I just know Sodom nor the surrounding cities could of have it any better, .. not even close.

So no, you are not my Brother or Sister in Christ, more like a voice of pending destruction and darkness. The destroyer of solid foundation that has brought Jew and Arab, and German, and Gypsies, white and black and hundreds of nations together living as one, but no, you want to turn this country into something far worse than Sodom and Gomorrah, and the voice of Jesus condemns such a ones. So my suggestion is: "Take the Warning from the mouth of our Lord Jesus, the Woe while you have time!"

Matthew 12:36
But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.


And don't think that your Rainbow Homosexual Christian Church will in some sneaky way escape judgment!? Repent, for the Day is at hand!


I had to stop at, "the word 'wife', which soon be a criminal hate act"
Did you have any debate questions you wanted to ask?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 296: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:20 pm
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Re: Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

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arian wrote:

Woe, .. who you calling 'brother and sister'? What if I am a woman trapped inside a mans body ey? Do you know how deeply wounding your reference to me as a brother would be? I would not have you call me a sister in Christ either, for what if I am a man trapped inside a woman's body ey? Just call me "Genderless in Christ" or I will haul you before a genderless judge for breaking the law. NO MORE this Brothers and sisters stuff, aren't we one in Christ?
Is there male of female in Heaven? Huh, .. is there?

It's the law now, so you better watch what gender you attribute to people. And no more words like 'mother or father either'!


That's incorrect about transgender people. Many do identify as male or female, they just feel that their internal gender identity doesn't match their external sex. For example, there are:

1) Male to female people (women assigned male at birth, they would be referred to with she/her/hers pronouns, "sister," "wife," etc.

2) Female to male people (men assigned female at birth, they would be referred to with he/him/his pronouns, "brother," "husband," etc.).

There are also some transgender people who do identify as genderless (having no gender identity) or genderqueer (having a gender identity other than male or female). With such people, it's best to ask about what pronouns and gender-related language they prefer. Many of these individuals prefer gender-neutral pronouns like "they" and gender-neutral language like "spouse" and "sibling."

As for gender--never just assume a person is trans. If they present as female (or male), assume that's how they identify unless they let you know otherwise.

arian wrote:
This was NOT to open the door for active thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, rapists, child molesters to 'love' their neighbor the way they want to interpret it.


It's uncivil to compare LGBT people to rapists and child molesters.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 297: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:42 pm
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[Replying to post 294 by arian]


Warning Moderator Warning

This kind of sarcasm is not civil; neither is your blanket comparison of law abiding groups to 'rapists and murderers.'

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 298: Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:08 pm
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Re: Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

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Haven wrote:

arian wrote:

Woe, .. who you calling 'brother and sister'? What if I am a woman trapped inside a mans body ey? Do you know how deeply wounding your reference to me as a brother would be? I would not have you call me a sister in Christ either, for what if I am a man trapped inside a woman's body ey? Just call me "Genderless in Christ" or I will haul you before a genderless judge for breaking the law. NO MORE this Brothers and sisters stuff, aren't we one in Christ?
Is there male of female in Heaven? Huh, .. is there?

It's the law now, so you better watch what gender you attribute to people. And no more words like 'mother or father either'!


That's incorrect about transgender people. Many do identify as male or female, they just feel that their internal gender identity doesn't match their external sex. For example, there are:

1) Male to female people (women assigned male at birth, they would be referred to with she/her/hers pronouns, "sister," "wife," etc.

2) Female to male people (men assigned female at birth, they would be referred to with he/him/his pronouns, "brother," "husband," etc.).

There are also some transgender people who do identify as genderless (having no gender identity) or genderqueer (having a gender identity other than male or female). With such people, it's best to ask about what pronouns and gender-related language they prefer. Many of these individuals prefer gender-neutral pronouns like "they" and gender-neutral language like "spouse" and "sibling."

As for gender--never just assume a person is trans. If they present as female (or male), assume that's how they identify unless they let you know otherwise.


Thank you for 'clearing that up' for us, only it's anything but 'clear'?
So just how many mistakes do you think doctors make at birth (assign wrong genders to babies)?
What would you think would be the 'proper' way of assigning genders to babies at birth? It sounds like we should leave it open, as a 'choice' when the child becomes sure which gender it wants to assume, let it fill in that; gender: _______ gap?

Haven wrote:
arian wrote:
This was NOT to open the door for active thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, rapists, child molesters to 'love' their neighbor the way they want to interpret it..


It's uncivil to compare LGBT people to rapists and child molesters.
[/quote]
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that 'active thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, rapists, child molesters' all come under that same LGBT heading?
So then legalizing all sin IS the reason this law passed, `I was thinking this just leads in that direction', not that now all sin, (you know, what the bronze Aged Bible listed as sin: thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuality etc.) is labeled as LGBT!?

So it is no longer correct to refer to thieves and murderers as thieves and murderers? We are to 'ask' what they prefer to be labeled as?
Boy, talk about the changing of books, .. all those "falsely labeled" prisoners, .. and for all them years too!

Judge: "You were arrested for breaking and entering, what charge would you 'prefer' to be listed under?" Tongue

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 299: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:06 pm
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Re: Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

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arian wrote:

Thank you for 'clearing that up' for us, only it's anything but 'clear'?
So just how many mistakes do you think doctors make at birth (assign wrong genders to babies)?


If by this, you're asking about the incidence of transgender people in the population, it's about one in 100 (one percent).

arian wrote:
What would you think would be the 'proper' way of assigning genders to babies at birth?


I don't think gender should be assigned at birth. Raise the child in a gender-neutral way and let them figure out on their own what their gender is. There's no need to force a gender (and worse yet, a set of gender stereotypes) on a newborn baby; that seems absurd.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 300: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:49 pm
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Re: Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

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[Replying to post 299 by Haven]
Maybe we've both been "schnookered" here. I'm reading arian "straight", knowing he can be dreadfully assertive. You apparently took his post as entirely serious, or maybe you just answered the parts that you thought were serious or were at least the bait leading up the to switch at the end.
Sorry, I can't help you. I don't know which parts (at least some?) are serious. C'mon arian, be more clear for at least your "groupies" here so we don't fall victims. (By victims I mean both of falling for the trick or getting ourselves in trouble by "ameniing" your posts or even enthusiastically furthering with our own posts that might be careless of going beyond the rules that you seem to be able to get around so easily. I'm Under Probation, man, and it's partly because of you.)
So yeah, I hear you man. Beyond that....no comment.
So the safe thing for me is to "report" this post? But then you schnooker the Mods that it's all in fun, or that the quotes got misplaced, you're ADHD (like me, but it doesn't seem to help ME get around the rules), your heart's in the right place, yada yada. I don't need to wish you good luck, yours has been better than mine at not getting yourself on probation.
EDITED TO ADD:
Now I've really gone and done it! I post the above and within 3 minutes danmark issues to arian his Final Warning! Here I'd just made a fool of myself about how arian could get away with uh. "murder" (and thieves, rapists) here, and I couldn't even predict the future 3 minutes. Or maybe danmark was finally goaded into action by my post, and arian would still be fancy-free except for betrayal by his friend? (A certain Mod, not to be named, but not danmark, responded to my remark that arian was my Teacher's Pet with his snooty, "Hah!. He toys with you as HIS Teacher's Pet!" All is lost.


Last edited by Korah on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:03 pm; edited 2 times in total

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