Civil Debates on Christianity and Religions

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Hayven
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:52 pm  Why is homophobia tolerated here? Reply with quote

If a person were to join this forum making racist comments, using and implying racial slurs, and saying that racial minorities were disgusting, evil, and inherently inferior, they would certainly be swiftly banned (and rightly so!). This person could say the same things about women, people from certain countries, people with disabilities, and the reaction would be the same -- a swift ban.

However, on this forum -- which prides itself on civility -- people can make bigoted and untrue comments about lesbians, gays, and bisexuals with absolutely no consequences. Not so much as a warning. Certain members have been making blatantly homophobic statements for years without even a moderator comment.

Why the double standard? Why is racism banned, but homophobia and heterosexual supremacy tolerated? Are LGB people somehow a less-deserving minority?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 41: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:51 am
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Danmark wrote:

OpenYourEyes wrote:

Let me break it down for you because it is actually quite simple. Sexual orientation is NOT entirely an uncontrollable matter. Behavior is also related to sexual orientation and can be a CHOICE unlike race, eye color, skin color, etc. What Christians are tend to attack is the behavioral aspect of sexual orientation.

There are many things I don't like about this position, but the core problem with it is that it demonstrates an utter lack of empathy and the triumph of unfairness.

To blithely and with pretense of absolute authority declare some people should be denied intimacy and the joy of sex in a long term, loving, committed, adult relationship because they don't fit your view of which gender they are attracted to, I . . . reject . . . as contrary to the ideals of Christianity.

This is an attitude I find the antithesis of being Christlike.


i acknowledge your opinion of Christianity, but Christian beliefs are not only Sola Scripture but are embodied in thousands of years of tradition. With respect to my research, practice, and tradition, I respectfully disagree with you. Either way, we could just say that there are two forms or types of Christians so you still would have an expression of a belief.


Last edited by OpenYourEyes on Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 42: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:53 am
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Danmark wrote:


Well said. I submit that "personally judging another because of gender and sexuality" is exactly what is going on in many of these anti homosexual posts. It is a constant subtext, if not explicit.

Constitutional law gives us some guidance here. In matters of race or class where a minority group has traditionally been mistreated or relegated to second class status because of a characteristic, courts employ "strict scrutiny." That is, in these areas the court may read in the subtext. The courts will not pretend ignorance about what is really going on.


I take that to mean i can not make judgement on a person but i can condemn homosexuality in general, just as the Apostle Paul did. I can say that same-sex behavior is a sin without directing thst towards any person in particular.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 43: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:58 am
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Korah wrote:

However so much as I might agree with you, we run even more compellingly into the problem of "reverse discrimination". For starters, what about the guy (or gal) who's a failure at work, never gets promoted. Nobody knew or cared their sexual orientation or even practices. Suddenly s/he "outs" self and sues for lifetime "lost" wages! ....

Yeah, I've heard of that happening... never.
Can you cite to an actual court case about a scenario like that?
And I'm not referring to some blog or even a 'news' report.
Cite an actual case, the facts from a court.

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MPG Recipient Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 44: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:44 am
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.
Danmark wrote:

Yeah, I've heard of that happening... never.
Can you cite to an actual court case about a scenario like that?
And I'm not referring to some blog or even a 'news' report.
Cite an actual case, the facts from a court.

There you go again Danmark, asking for verification. Don't you realize that it is the story that counts -- not whether it is true or not?

It's the "moral" that is important in parables. That it never happened is immaterial. Aren't religions built on this principle?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 45: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:00 am
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[Replying to post 43 by Danmark]
Busted.
Again.
Oh, wait, I've got to say more or I'll get modded for a one-liner. How's this, long enough, are you as bored as you (not you, d, NOTHING PERSONAL) guys always are with me? OK, enough already!

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 46: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:04 am
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OpenYourEyes wrote:

Danmark wrote:

OpenYourEyes wrote:

Let me break it down for you because it is actually quite simple. Sexual orientation is NOT entirely an uncontrollable matter. Behavior is also related to sexual orientation and can be a CHOICE unlike race, eye color, skin color, etc. What Christians are tend to attack is the behavioral aspect of sexual orientation.

There are many things I don't like about this position, but the core problem with it is that it demonstrates an utter lack of empathy and the triumph of unfairness.

To blithely and with pretense of absolute authority declare some people should be denied intimacy and the joy of sex in a long term, loving, committed, adult relationship because they don't fit your view of which gender they are attracted to, I . . . reject . . . as contrary to the ideals of Christianity.

This is an attitude I find the antithesis of being Christlike.


i acknowledge your opinion of Christianity, but Christian beliefs are not only Sola Scripture but are embodied in thousands of years of tradition. With respect to my research, practice, and tradition, I respectfully disagree with you. Either way, we could just say that there are two forms or types of Christians so you still would have an expression of a belief.

Yes, there are many examples of different Christian traditions. There's this:

The idea that racial or ethnic groups should be persecuted is popular in the Bible. God himself was keen on exterminating whole peoples, such as the Amalekites (1 Samuel 15:3). Believing that they had replaced the Jews as God's chosen people, Christians deduced that they were free to persecute and extirpate non-Christian peoples, and even that they were under a moral obligation to do so.
....
Churches were often guilty of complicity in massacres and atrocities resulting from colonial policy. For example King Leopold was granted control of the Congo in 1885 explicitly to bring Christianity to the benighted heathen. The atrocities perpetrated by his government in the Belgian Congo — the extensive use of slave labour and assorted murderous practices — were first concealed then minimised by the Roman Church.

http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gab_racism.htm
and...
there's this:

The shift began with one of Francis’ signature lines, from an in-flight press conference a few months after his election in 2013, when he was asked about whether a gay man could be a priest. “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis famously said.
He even used the English word “gay,” something no pope had ever done, as most bishops prefer the more clinical term “homosexual.”
A few months later, Francis personally responded to an appeal from a gay Catholic group in Florence, telling them he enjoyed and appreciated their letter and assuring them of his blessing.
Then last month, it emerged Francis met with a transgender person from Spain who had written to the pope — with assistance from his bishop — after feeling rejected by his parish because of his sex-change operation. It was a moving moment for Diego Neria Lejarraga, and many LGBT Catholics.

“This man loves the whole world,” he told CNN, referring to Francis. “I think there’s not — in his head, in his way of thinking, discrimination against anyone. I’m speaking about him, not the institution.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2015/02/16/gay-catholics-find-new-tone-pope-francis-...

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 47: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:24 pm
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Like this post (1): Lion IRC
Analogy/example;

A black boy with black family growing up in a real tough city like Detroit, in a real tough and dangerous all black neighborhood, but always wanted to be white. Always dreaming to live in the upper white suburbs, to go to a mostly white safe school, get a white mans job with white mans pay and marry a white girl.

One day the mother says "That's it! Come on boy, we're moving!" She gets a housecleaning job with some rich white folk who just love her.
So they move on up to the East side,
get a deluxe apartment way up in the sky,
thinking "we finally got a piece of the pie."
Nice new stove where the fish don't burn in the kitchen,
the beans don't burn on the grill,
graduated from an all white good school, went to get a job in an all white company.

He sits down to fill out the application, and where it asks 'Gender', he puts 'white/Caucasian'.

Why not?

If men can put on a dress over their hairy body, and demand to be referred to as a 'lady', then why can't a black man be accepted as a white man? Not be treated equally, but looked upon as a white man. To be referred to as a white man at golfing clubs.

Another words to be referred to as white man by the public: "Have you seen gentlemen named Tyrone, do you know where his desk is?"

"Aahh, .. can you describe him for me, we have quite a few new employees."

"Well he is a tall white gentlemen with a big black curly afro, and dark, really dark black skin."


Or

What about kleptomaniacs, imagine the humiliation, the jailing's, the name calling: "You f..n thief! Your FIRED!" that could be remedied with one teeny-tiny change of the law: 'Kleptomania is finally legal!' and raise a flag filled with trinkets, coins, you know, with small inexpensive things, maybe a shoe or a shirt here and there, and fly it so proudly next to the American flag!?

Kleptomania is the inability to refrain from the urge to steal items and is done for reasons other than personal use or financial gain. First described in 1816, kleptomania is classified in psychiatry as an impulse control disorder.

Or how about

Child molesters, especially men? Same sex marriage is already legal, now if we just change the age limit down to 4 years old, just imagine all those homeless boys who could be living in a nice house, well fed, nice warm bed with sheets instead of the cement in the gutters fighting off the freezing cold!
One teeny-tiny law change, and look at all the humiliation those poor child molesters be spared? And how many unwanted, homeless boys/girls could be taken off the streets into 'LOVING' (remember that homosexuality is ALL about LOVE too!) caring arms of older men? One change of the law, that's it and EVERYTHING would be all fine and dandy.

OR, .. why not look at the sin itself, and decide each one if its really a sin, .. or is all sin just bronze aged ignorant, cold hearted, mean, cruel, hateful, unsympathetic discrimination made by homophobic, Christian haters who refuse to accept they are animals of the ape family!?

The Bible defined some sins that God felt had negative/bad effects on people in general, and for thousands and thousands of years people of all nations agreed they were bad, and those who committed them should be punished accordingly.

But hey we have reached a time in history when Sci-Fientology has decided that God is dead because "nothing is no longer nothing anymore" and things like universes can pop out of nothing just as bubbles coming out of a bubble blower. Yep, and they have evidence, a Jesuit priest seen a vision of our universe popping out of it!

The Bible? Ha, ha, ha, the Bible they claim is just a bunch of sheepherders and bored fisherman's made up fairytales of talking donkeys. Its rules and laws can be freely ignored, to a point where now our Leaders/appointed officials can come before the public and announce to its citizens that: "We have 4 trillion dollars unaccounted for, we have no idea where it is. Thank you." and everyone just nod's their head and goes back to work to be able to pay their credit card debts. So stealing BIG is already within the law, because I didn't see anyone get punished for Enron or the missing 4 trillion? Now if I owed $600 on my credit card, even after I paid it, 8 years later they still had collection agents demanding it. So stealing small is still against the law, .. unless we pass this "Kleptomaniac-law"!?

So how about it? Let's re-analyze all sin starting with this homosexuality one? And see why Homosexuality was a sin, punishable by death on many occasions, since recorded history?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 48: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:23 pm
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I think this is relevant for this thread:
otseng wrote:

Star wrote:

No, it's not bigoted to label someone who is bigoted a "bigot".

On this forum, name calling is not allowed, including calling someone else a bigot. And even if you can prove someone is a bigot, it is still not allowed. The only circumstance I can think of where I would allow it is if someone called himself a bigot, then you are free to call him one.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 49: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:42 pm
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Like this post (1): Hayven
arian wrote:

Analogy/example;

A black boy with black family growing up in a real tough city like Detroit, in a real tough and dangerous all black neighborhood, but always wanted to be white. Always dreaming to live in the upper white suburbs, to go to a mostly white safe school, get a white mans job with white mans pay and marry a white girl.

One day the mother says "That's it! Come on boy, we're moving!" She gets a housecleaning job with some rich white folk who just love her.
So they move on up to the East side,
get a deluxe apartment way up in the sky,
thinking "we finally got a piece of the pie."
Nice new stove where the fish don't burn in the kitchen,
the beans don't burn on the grill,
graduated from an all white good school, went to get a job in an all white company.

He sits down to fill out the application, and where it asks 'Gender', he puts 'white/Caucasian'.

Why not?



Because white/Caucasian isn't a GENDER now is it?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 50: Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:23 pm
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[quote="arian"]
Analogy/example;

A black boy with black family growing up in a real tough city like Detroit, in a real tough and dangerous all black neighborhood, but always wanted to be white. Always dreaming to live in the upper white suburbs, to go to a mostly white safe school, get a white mans job with white mans pay and marry a white girl.

One day the mother says "That's it! Come on boy, we're moving!" She gets a housecleaning job with some rich white folk who just love her.
So they move on up to the East side,
get a deluxe apartment way up in the sky,
thinking "we finally got a piece of the pie."
Nice new stove where the fish don't burn in the kitchen,
the beans don't burn on the grill,
graduated from an all white good school, went to get a job in an all white company.

He sits down to fill out the application, and where it asks 'Gender', he puts 'white/Caucasian'.

Why not?

If men can put on a dress over their hairy body, and demand to be referred to as a 'lady', then why can't a black man be accepted as a white man? Not be treated equally, but looked upon as a white man. To be referred to as a white man at golfing clubs.


Warning Moderator Warning


Having a difference of opinion regarding what 'sin' is may be one thing, but this post is absolutely uncivil, racist, bigoted and designed to inflame and be divisive.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

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