IS WITCHCRAFT GOOD OR EVIL?

[acehighinfinity]

[Replying to post 106 by Divine Insight]
DIVINE INSIGHT:

Moreover, I find the verse that you have posted to be quite interesting and I use it frequently to defend my witchcraft against Christian criticism. The Christians often claim that witches get their power from Satan (just as Jesus had been accused of in the verse you've quoted).

However, like Jesus I use my powers for good works. Therefore, for the very same reasons that Jesus gave my powers cannot come from Beelzebub (or Satan) because a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Therefore my powers necessarily must come from God, for precisely the same reasons that Jesus gave.

If what Jesus spoke is truth, then clearly it must also apply to me. I cannot do good works in the name of Beelzebub, demons, or Satan because that would be a house divided against itself.

So I find it rather humorous that Jesus himself has totally vindicated all witches who do good works. Because their power (according to Jesus) can only come from God. Only God's power can be used for good works.

I would like to invite you here DIVINE INSIGHT
The above post caught my attention and I would like to bring this to the light. Now in another thread I am under the impression you study Buddhism but claim not to be a Buddhist, correct?

I am totally against WitchCraft according to the Holy Bible:
Deuteronomy 18:14 "The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so."
Revelation 22:15 "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Leviticus 19:26 "Do not practice divination or seek omens"
...the list goes on.

Questions:
If Divine Insight claim to use WitchCraft for good, then could you or anyone else list those examples please?
Does one see WitchCraft as Good? or
Does one see WitchCraft as Evil?

Feel free to add on.

Thanks in advance,
Ace

[Divine Insight]

I don't accept Christian arrogance. The Christians are the ones who have defined "sorcery" to be "black magic" etc. They are the ones who have associated this with their Satan.

But that's a Christian-biased definition of sorcery. And obviously you support Christian bias. I do not.

Arrogance: the act of one person declaring the thoughts of another, and by doing so, claiming a power that only God possesses.

I was actually taking my definition of "sorcery" from "The Witchcrafte Bible Compleat" by Janet and Stewart Farrar. They're Wiccans, not Christians.

I don't care where you get all your negative biases from or how you go about supporting them.

I was obviously speaking in terms of doing good works. That was a fundamental premise of my entire position.

Therefore anyone who uses the term sorcery in a negative connotation is not using the term in the same way that I use it.

I don't deny that magic and sorcery can be used to do bad things. But that doesn't mean that all magic and sorcery needs to be negative.

It should be crystal clear from the context in which I used it that I was only referring to doing good works.

That was a prerequisite of my position to begin with.

I say that Jesus own defense was that he was doing good works.

And then I stated that if this is a valid defense for him then it must necessarily be a valid defense for anyone else who does good works.

For you to try to twist that into something negative can only be an act of your own bad works.

Why you insist on using Jesus as an excuse to degrade and belittle other people I have no clue, but it isn't working here.

Everything I have said about Jesus has been positive. The only negative thing in this entire thread has been your negative accusations and innuendos.

All negativity has been fabricated by you and directed toward me.

All I'm saying is that if Jesus can use the excuse that because he does good works they necessarily must come from God, then his excuse is just as valid for me as well.

In fact, if it isn't valid for me, then clearly it wasn't valid for him either.

It's either a valid claim or it's not.

You are the one who is smearing all manner of negativity around this.

Not me. The negativity is all emanating from you.

And that seems truly ironic in this particular topic because according to Jesus then you must be obtaining your source from a demonic world. Because evil cannot come from God's house for the same reason: A house divided against itself cannot stand.

So why are you putting out so much negative energy in this thread?

I say Jesus did good works and I do good works.

So what is your problem again?

[reality_cheq]

[Replying to post 1 by acehighinfinity]

So you believe in witches?? What, is it 1692?!

[K77]

Let me just say that ANY witch that interrupts the flow of good energy light and love is most likely the kind of witch the Christians bible warns them about. If a witch uses her gifts and energy to argue, criticize, judge or harm others in any possible way then you have chosen dark. In that case I bind you from doing harm to yourself, others and me .

[Divine Insight]

If a witch uses her gifts and energy to argue, criticize.

I don't think anyone needs to be a witch to argue and criticize. Christians have been doing that for years. In fact, the very first Christians (i.e. the authors of the Gospels, where masters at arguing and criticizing others).

In apparently so was Jesus himself. But then again, there are many people who believe that Jesus was a witch. He was accused himself of using Dark Powers. In fact, that was a large part of what sparked this old thread. Jesus' own defense was that he did GOOD WORKS and therefore he could not have obtained his powers from evil lest the evil source would be standing against itself.

So I think the question of the thread is misguided. It's not "witchcraft" that is GOOD or EVIL. Just like a knife isn't GOOD or EVIL. It's what it's used for that determines whether it's GOOD or EVIL.

Jesus claimed to be a GOOD witch.

And that was his defense.

[Yahu]

Before this debate proceeds it might be useful to agree upon a definition of what is meant by witchcraft. If, for example, witchcraft is defined as a powerful alliance with the forces of evil to maliciously use supernatural forces for personal power and aggrandizement, then the answer to the debate question is rather obvious. However, if you define magic as an attempt to understand, experience and influence the world using rituals, symbols and language in a manner similar to religion, the answer may be completely different.

Scripture says rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Rebellion is rejecting a valid authority over you while witchcraft is invalid usurpation of power over others. In the case of ritual witchcraft, the practitioners worship high level spirits/principalities to gain power over lesser spiritual forces to serve their will. It is a violation of the law to have any other gods before Yahweh.

BTW, Christians HAVE all authority over spiritual forces of the enemy granted to us by Yeshua. We can directly command spiritual forces BUT we must be careful in how we use that authority. Personally I only use it in countering spiritual forces sent by witchcraft. I have had a coven try to kill me with curses. I just generally send back any spiritual forces sent against me back to the sender 7x in the name of Yeshua. Those coven members ended up in prison or dead. Only those that repented survived.

Modern day witchcraft is mainly a resurrection of Baalim worship. Ashtoreth and Asherah are the primary goddesses of witchcraft though known by many other names in other cultures. Baal, Molech, Asherah and Ashtoreth are the 'four winds' the four main principalities behind witchcraft. Queen Jezebel was the high priestess of Ashtoreth of her day and we all know how Yah feels about those that follow her ways. For example, Asherah is who we would know as 'mother earth'.

Even prayers to Mary under the title of 'queen of heaven' is just witchcraft conducted via Ashtoreth. 'Queen of heaven/sky' was one of her titles at Babel as queen mother of Nimrod.

[Divine Insight]

I don't think people have been paying any attention to what was actually said in the quote in the OP.

Jesus was accused of performing works by the power of Satan. Jesus' excuse was that he was performing "Good Works" and therefore his power cannot have come from Satan lest Satan be divided against himself and fall.

If that excuse is valid for Jesus then it must necessarily be valid for everyone.

Anyone who uses spiritual powers (magic or witchcraft) to do good works must necessarily be like Jesus. Jesus' excuse must apply to them as well. Otherwise Jesus' excuse would fail. If a person can do good works using evil powers then so could Jesus!

And if that's true, then Jesus excuse would be a lie. Christians can't have Jesus lying. Therefore what Jesus says must be TRUTH. And if Jesus say that good works cannot be done by the power of Satan, and that the power to do good works can only come from God, then it must necessarily apply to witches too.

It's the only way to save Jesus from being a liar.

Any witch who uses witchcraft to do good works is necessarily obtaining their power from God. That has to be the case unless Jesus is a liar.

[OnceConvinced]

Does one see WitchCraft as Good? or
Does one see WitchCraft as Evil?

I believe the writers of the bible condemn Witchcraft simply because they didn't understand it and it went against their own religious beliefs.

Witchcraft is not what Hollywood portrays. They aren't devil worshipping fiends who go around casting spells and cursing people. At least not the average one. Those things are fantasy. There is no supernatural dark power going on there. Anyone who thinks they wield such powers is deluded.

Thanks to the Internet I became friends with some witches online and found out they were decent moral people, they just had some strange beliefs and practises, that's all, but nothing evil.

[Mask of the Devil]

Tools are neither good or evil, in my opinion.
Witchcraft is just a tool.

[jgh7]

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Wouldn't Christianity view Wicca as evil simply because they worship other gods and spirits? Isn't that considered evil in Christianity?

Actually, do Wiccans worship other gods and spirits?

[Yahu]

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Wouldn't Christianity view Wicca as evil simply because they worship other gods and spirits? Isn't that considered evil in Christianity?

Actually, do Wiccans worship other gods and spirits?

Yes they do. Any witchcraft conducted by worship of any powerful spirit other than our creator is forbidden and punishable by death.

Generally those involved in the lite and fluffy side of witchcraft are followers of 'mother earth'. That would be the goddess Asherah to the Canaanites. Wica is riddled with her doctrines. Those that get deeper into witchcraft for curses and such are following the ways of Asthoreth, the other primary goddess of witchcraft.

Witchcraft can be conducted via worship of any of the four winds/spirits. They are the primary gods/goddesses of witchcraft, the top four principalities of hell. Many spells/curses actually call upon all four or reference them by the four points of the compass. Each one has a direction associated with them.

This is why many involved in witchcraft don't even acknowledge Satan or Satanism. They may be following one of the other principalities. This is very true of those involved in goddess worship witchcraft.

Just participating in witchcraft is dangerous because the enemy spiritual forces have the right to kill anyone who does.

Witchcraft can only carry out punishments on those guilty of violations of Yah's laws. For example, a death curse will not work on someone innocent. Yah will protect the innocent but not anyone that has violated His law.