Could Jesus have been gay?

[JJ50]

The gospel of John specifically mentions that there was a disciple whom Jesus loved, presumably male. As Jesus never condemned homosexuality, it is possible he was gay and enjoying a gay relationship with this particular disciple?

There is nothing wrong with being gay, it is NORMAL! If it could be proved Jesus was gay it would be a slap in the face to all the unpleasant bigots who use the Bible as an excuse for their nasty bigotry where homosexuality is concerned.

A question for the Christians on the forum, just supposing it could be established beyond all doubt that Jesus was a homosexual, would it make any difference to your faith?

[Miles]

[Replying to post 1 by JJ50]

Seems the idea of Jesus being a homosexual may have some justification.


"Robert Goss, assistant professor of comparative religion at Webster University, stated that Jesus and the beloved disciple: “… eat together, side by side. What’s being portrayed here is a pederastic relationship between an older man and a younger man. A Greek reader would understand.� Anyone that has studied Greek History would also understand."
source


John 21;20
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?


"Was Jesus queer? We don't know. But it is a possibility that cannot be ruled out. One version of St. Mark's gospel - which is still the subject of academic dispute - alludes to Jesus having a homosexual relationship with a youth he raised from the dead.

According to the US Biblical scholar, Morton Smith, of Columbia University, a fragment of manuscript he found at the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem in 1958, showed that the full text of St. Mark chapter 10 (between verses 34 and 35 in the standard version of the Bible) includes the passage:

"And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God".

The veracity of this manuscript is hotly contested by other Biblical scholars. This comes as no surprise. The revelation of a gay Jesus would undermine some of the most fundamental tenets of orthodox Christianity, including its rampant homophobia."
source

[JehovahsWitness]

John 21;20
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

In middle eastern communities, people did not eat sitting upright at a table (with a knife and fork), people would eat with their hands reclining or lying on their side. So when a number of people were eating together (men and woman wouldn't customarily eat together so this would often be a number of men) people would usually be lying on their left side with the left elbow placed on the table, a pillow supporting their left elbow and the head resting on the left hand, eating with their right hands often from a communial bowl. . Usually three persons occupied each couch, but there could be as many as five.

The position of being cloesest to the host* (generally considered a a favored or an honored position), would be lying (reclining) to the hosts right. To speak to them quietly therefore, they would simply have to lead back to the host chest.



*The expression "bosom position" alludes to one's reclining in front of another person on the same couch at a meal [In English we have the expressio "bosom buddies" which is also not an allusion to homosexual relstionships but to close/ intimate trusted friendships]

To imply therefore that there is anything intincitly sexually intimate of the above position is to display an igorance of the most basic customs of the region and times.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



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HOMOSEXUALITY, HOMOPHOBIA and ...BIBLICAL PROHIBITIONS

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by JJ50]

A question for the Christians on the forum, just supposing it could be established beyond all doubt that Jesus was a homosexual, would it make any difference to your faith?

Yes, for the following reasons.

It would undermine Jesus' ministry ...

The bible condemns homosexuality in both the Hebrew and the Christian Greek scriptures. Since Jesus is recorded as saying he did not come to "destroy the law" and spoke often of the superiority of the written law, to have been living and presumably practising what that same law condemned would have made him a hypocrite. The bible says God does not accept sacrifices from hypocrits so the ransom sacrifice of Jesus would have been invalidated by the above. This would have rendered the entire Christian faith invalid.

HYPOCRITE

a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

If arguably Jesus' fulfillment of the law meant a revision not only of the immediate penalty for homosexuality but a total revision of God's attitude towards sexual contact between men, it would not only have been hypocritical of him to benefit from these changes but not inform people clearly that this was the case so they in turn could also benefit, but also cowardly (since that would have meant he were hiding from the general public if not from his immediate entourage) his actions. The bible says God will condemn cowards to eternal destruction, so Jesus' actions would again have invalidated the very sacrifice upon which the Christian faith is based.

It would undermine Jesus' sacrifice

For Jesus to have been a homosexual would mean he were arguably subject to what some speculate as a neurological malfunction either from birth or from some later trauma, that would be symptomatic of physical imperfection. Since the ransom sacrifice would only be beneficial if it were the exact equivalent of that which was lost by Adam (ie one PERFECT: faultless/flawless) human life, then again the basis for salvation (Jesus' ransom sacrifice) could not have been valid.




CONCLUSION: While the beauty and general appeal of much of what Jesus said on a superficial level may possibly stand, Jesus' being a homosexual would have invalidated the honesty of his ministry and the life sacrifice he gave. This would in turn have invalidated very foundation of the Christian faith. There would be no forgiveness of sin and no hope for mankind, a BIG difference indeed.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by JJ50]

So many believer throw a fit when you say Jesus was married (which I find amusing) they would likely had their head explode if one were to claim Jesus was gay.
The point here is, when it comes to what Jesus was, who Jesus was, what he said, did or went, if it differentiates from the biblical record, so many get upset.
For those people, the bible is the end all for their belief.
Then, there are those who are the exact opposite.

Even in modern times, history is hard to keep straight. Why would we think something that happened thousands of year's ago be any different?

But is Jesus gay (or could he have been gay)? Sure. All we have to go on is belief and what someone said about him that someone else wrote down later which was later translated by less then honest people (most times).

I for one would love it if he was gay and could be proven if for nothing else than comedic value watching others go crazy over it.

[JLB32168]

The gospel of John specifically mentions that there was a disciple whom Jesus loved, presumably male.

The word is igape the past tense of agape, which doesn’t describe the love of a romantic relationship. That type of love is usually rendered eros or philos. In order to accept that this was a romantic relationship we would have to assume the Greeks who wrote it didn’t know their own language and used the wrong word.

As Jesus never condemned homosexuality . . .

Jesus never condemned cannibalism either. As for having same sex attraction, I agree that it is normal and there’s nothing wrong in being tempted; however, one is supposed to struggle with temptation rather than embrace it.

[Yahu]

A question for the Christians on the forum, just supposing it could be established beyond all doubt that Jesus was a homosexual, would it make any difference to your faith?

Then we would all be doomed. If Yeshua wasn't sinless, then His sacrifice on the cross was meaningless because the OT is clear that homosexuality is an abomination to Yah.

[Masamune]

It would not affect my religious faith if Jesus was homosexual. That said, I think the purpose of suggesting Jesus is gay is purely sensational. We have this modern idea that "love" between members of the same sex automatically is sexual in nature. Historically, men and women have been kept in very separate spheres and so it wasn't uncommon for men to develop deep platonic friendships. This is why you see letters from historical figures pop up every so often in which poetic descriptions and loving terminology is misinterpreted as homosexuality by the modern eye. This was true in ancient times as well as in more recent history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_ ... l_examples

Also, even if Jesus was gay, certainly none of his disciples would have acknowledged this. Jesus does not mention homosexuality, but in the Jewish faith as it was practiced at that time period, homosexuality was very much forbidden. The disciples would not have acknowledged Jesus was gay in any way if that was the case and certainly not in Scripture.

As I said, the sexuality of Christ is completely irrelevant to my faith. But I definitely don't see any evidence this was the case. I think this is an attempt to stick it to Christians who have a problem with homosexuality. And while I understand that sentiment, it doesn't make the claim accurate.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by JJ50]

So many believer throw a fit when you say Jesus was married (which I find amusing) they would likely had their head explode if one were to claim Jesus was gay.
The point here is, when it comes to what Jesus was, who Jesus was, what he said, did or went, if it differentiates from the biblical record, so many get upset.

For those people, the bible is the end all for their belief.
Then, there are those who are the exact opposite.

Even in modern times, history is hard to keep straight. Why would we think something that happened thousands of year's ago be any different?

But is Jesus gay (or could he have been gay)? Sure. All we have to go on is belief and what someone said about him that someone else wrote down later which was later translated by less then honest people (most times).

I for one would love it if he was gay and could be proven if for nothing else than comedic value watching others go crazy over it.

The Christians in this thread await your surprise at how calm we are and your apology for presuming so poorly of us. Also since there are 1000s of people groups to consider when presuming how others might react to any given fact perhaps you can presume for more groups or, ideally, for none.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 9 by Wootah]

The Christians in this thread await your surprise at how calm we are

I would direct you to TWBBC group for the lack of calmness.
As you know, there are many Christians that aren't calm, both here and in the actual world, just as there are those who are calm.
Also, you will note that by 'others' doesn't mean 'all'.

your apology for presuming so poorly of us.

Actions speak louder than words, as the saying goes.

perhaps you can presume for more groups or, ideally, for none.

No presumptions that aren't based on experience.