Lucifer is only referenced once in scripture. It isn't even a name in the original hebrew. Lucifer is Latin from the Latin translation into our modern canon.
The actual passage calls him 'Heylel ben Shachar' which is translated 'Lucifer, son of the morning'. How can he be a fallen angel if he is not 'ben Elohyim' but 'ben Shachar'? I guess people don't know that Shachar was a Canaanite deity that was himself an 'ben El' according to the Canaanites.
Now Heylel (Lucifer) isn't even a name. It is a descriptive title. It means 'light bringer' or 'shining one' and is a common epitaph for a sungod. For example the same thing in Greek is Pheobus, ie 'bright'. Pheobus is a title of Apollo and Apollo means 'the destroyer' in Greek.
Now since Lucifer is from the Latin translation, it is interesting to note that the goddess Diana was Diana Luciferah as well in the Latin, ie the feminine form of Lucifer who was the twin sister of Apollo.
Most christian doctrine assumes that the serpent in the garden was Lucifer yet no where in scripture is this even speculated. Satan doesn't even appear in scripture until the time of Job, well after the flood.
Now if we assume that Shachar actually was an angel that had children then Lucifer at most is the son of a fallen angel who would have been born on earth, lived then died. How can he be anything more then just a ghost?
The passage of Isa 14 talks of Lucifer as a shameful ruler that destroys, then dies, is eaten by worms, descends into sheol where kings in sheol say 'Is this the MAN?'
So how is Lucifer a man?
How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
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Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #51This is the Theology, doctrine and dogma subforum. To discuss here, you have to take the scripture as valid otherwise you have no business in the subform. I will not debate the validity of scripture with you.Clownboat wrote:Who? Perhaps you are assigning agency a bit to quickly?Now who could be behind all those false doctrines?
When you ask about a 'who', I can't help but realize that an 'imagination' would account for all these claims and we must admit, we know that imaginations are real, meanwhile these mythological angels, demons and gods, not so much.
What makes a modern day priestesses claims believable anyways? Doesn't all the angels and demon claims scream fairy tale to you? If not, why not?
Angels, demons, evil spirits, other gods and witchcraft are clearly presented in scripture as actual things. I KNOW those things as actual, not fairy tale from personal experience. Yes, you are correct in assuming that the high priestess could lie but you don't understand the situation. I had caught her in many lies and she gave up trying to lie to me because I always knew when she was lying to me so she started bragging about the truth she knew that I did not then I found conformation for nearly everything she said in scripture. I know how powerful a witch she was because I was her nemesis and the target of much of it. Most people would consider witchcraft as fairy tale and I KNOW that it is not.
Mythology in general is rooted in some fact. Oh plenty of it is ridiculous added stories or has at least a core of truth to it. For example, the origin of Aphrodite from the castration of Uranus and Aphrodite rising full grown from the sea from the testicles. The story of the castration of Uranus was the Greek story of the castration of Noah by Canaan. The results of that brought about the conception of Artemis (and her twin) who was Aphrodite in her adult life. Leto and Gaia in the Greek myths is a reference to Noah's wife, Na'amah A story was need to separate the personas of Artemis and Aphrodite so a story was need to explain her origin without a youth. Aphrodite was also a goddess associated the sea. The story is ridiculous nonsense but with a core of truth.
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bluethread
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Post #52
Ecclesiastes is a systematic examination of various philosophies. It states various premises and examines them for consistency and practicality. Therefore, whenever one looks at a verse from that book, one must look at the context to determine what philosophy is being examined.ttruscott wrote:The writer of Ecc was not screwed up but wrote the truth about the world that GOD wanted to be written so as to to contrast it to HIS truth. And it takes the Holy Spirit that you deny to find the way between the joints.onewithhim wrote:
You know another reason why your argument doesn't hold water? What scripture do people use who are trying to prove that a dead person's spirit goes consciously back to God when they die? ECCLESIASTES 12:7. My point is, if Ecclesiastes is screwed up because its writer is "a worldly minded unspiritual person," then why do so many people that believe like you do quote Ecclesiastes 12:7?
Ecclesiastes 12:7 is speaking to hedonism and empiricism. The point being that if a philosophy is valid, one should not put off implementing it. It may be inconvenient in throws of youth, but, if one does not implement it early, the die is caste and it is difficult and of little value once one is old or dead. This is the argument that Paul makes when he speaks of Moshe' "choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;"
Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 is speaking to egalitarian fatalism. The alternative philosophy(evil), is the premise; (Eccl 9:1-2) "no man knows either love or hatred by all that is before them. All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrifices , and to him that sacrifices not: as is the good, so is the sinner ; and he that swears , as he that fears an oath." If one holds that view, one may as well be an existentialist, because delayed gratification is a waste. One can not count on an afterlife making up for the problems one currently faces.
So, those statements are not establishing the nature of death for the Torah based theist, but recognizing the nature of death for the hedonistic empiricist and the egalitarian fatalist.
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Clownboat
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Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #53Yahu wrote:Clownboat wrote:Who? Perhaps you are assigning agency a bit to quickly?Now who could be behind all those false doctrines?
When you ask about a 'who', I can't help but realize that an 'imagination' would account for all these claims and we must admit, we know that imaginations are real, meanwhile these mythological angels, demons and gods, not so much.
What makes a modern day priestesses claims believable anyways? Doesn't all the angels and demon claims scream fairy tale to you? If not, why not?And there is no need for you to validate scripture here.This is the Theology, doctrine and dogma subforum. To discuss here, you have to take the scripture as valid otherwise you have no business in the subform. I will not debate the validity of scripture with you.
Where you claim there is a 'who', I challenge that claim by pointing out the fact that a 'who' is not needed, just an imagination.
We are all free to analyze for ourselves if we find imagination more likely to explain ghosts, demons, angels rather than these undetectable things actually being a reality.
They are make believe from my personal experience and to be honest, I trust mine over yours as I'm sure you feel the same way.Angels, demons, evil spirits, other gods and witchcraft are clearly presented in scripture as actual things. I KNOW those things as actual, not fairy tale from personal experience.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #54You mean they are make believe due to your total lack of personal experience.Clownboat wrote: They are make believe from my personal experience and to be honest, I trust mine over yours as I'm sure you feel the same way.
A lack of experience does not impart any knowledge. It is the absence of knowledge, ie ignorance.
Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #55The Pharisees accused Yeshua of casting out demons by the power of Baalzebub, the prince of demons.
How did the pharasees know that the pagan deity Baalzebub of the Philistines was the prince of demons? The answer is taken directly out of the Testament of Solomon, a book common in synagogues that is not in the canon. It portrays Baalzebub as prince of demons.
Mt 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Beelzebub is the OT deity Baal-zebub (lord of flies). His worship was associated with offerings of things like mice, locust, ... Any type of animal/insect that causes plagues on crops or men. He was 'the destroyer' by plagues. Also Apollo means 'the destroyer' in Greek and he was a destroyer by guess what? Plagues. Now Molech worship also had minor offerings of the same things.
According to Testament of Solomon, Solomon lost his wisdom when one of his yough wives convinced him to sacrifice locust to Molech.
How did the pharasees know that the pagan deity Baalzebub of the Philistines was the prince of demons? The answer is taken directly out of the Testament of Solomon, a book common in synagogues that is not in the canon. It portrays Baalzebub as prince of demons.
Mt 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Beelzebub is the OT deity Baal-zebub (lord of flies). His worship was associated with offerings of things like mice, locust, ... Any type of animal/insect that causes plagues on crops or men. He was 'the destroyer' by plagues. Also Apollo means 'the destroyer' in Greek and he was a destroyer by guess what? Plagues. Now Molech worship also had minor offerings of the same things.
According to Testament of Solomon, Solomon lost his wisdom when one of his yough wives convinced him to sacrifice locust to Molech.
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Clownboat
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Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #56As a born again, spirit filled, drunk in the holy ghost, street evangelizing missionary of 2 decades, your words mean nothing to me. Your words above are made out of ignorance. Gotta love me the irony though.Yahu wrote:You mean they are make believe due to your total lack of personal experience.Clownboat wrote: They are make believe from my personal experience and to be honest, I trust mine over yours as I'm sure you feel the same way.
A lack of experience does not impart any knowledge. It is the absence of knowledge, ie ignorance.
Would you care to address the fact that only an imagination is required? You can still believe in ghost, bigfoot, demons or what have you of course.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #57Notes on biblical False Gods
Anat (Anath/Anoth) " wisdom or answers prayer - is the familiar name of the
Canaanite goddess identified with Athena in a Cyprian inscription. She is sometimes
identified with Venus. In scripture she is only identified in place names such as Anathoth and Bethanath.
Succothbenoth " tents of the daughters daughters booth " goddess Zir-banit of
Babylon, wife of Merodach
Nergal " Hero, The great dog; that is, lion, one of the chief gods of the Assyrians and Babylonians #2Ki 17:30 the god of war and hunting. He is connected with Cutha as its tutelary deity. Nergal was worshiped after the influences of Mars interfered with the earth causing the planetary destruction of the days of the prophets. He was the primary deity of Rome under the name Mars.
Ashima - " guiltiness: I will make desolate"
Nibhaz - " the barker", a deity of the Avites introduced by them into Samaria in the time of Shalmaneser; idol had the figure of a dog
Tartak - " prince of darkness"
1) one of the deities of the Avite people of Samaria
1a) according to tradition, worshipped under the form of an ass
Adrammelech - Adar the king.
1. An idol; a form of the sun-god worshipped by the inhabitants of Sepharvaim #2Ki
17:31 and brought by the Sepharvite colonists into Samaria.
Adrammelech = "honour of the king" or "Adar is prince" or "Adar is Counsellor,
Decider", Children were passed through the fire for him. Adar " Exceedingly glorious
Anammelech - goddess worshipped by the people of Sepharvaim, who colonized Samaria #2Ki 17:31 The name means "Anu is king." It was a female deity representing the moon, as Adrammelech (q.v.) was the male representing the sun.
Anammelech =" image of the king" an Assyrian false god introduced to Israel during the monarchy; worshiped with rites resembling those of Molech; companion god of
'Adrammelech'
Nisroch = "the great eagle" 1) an idol of Nineveh worshipped by Sennacherib;
symbolised by the eagle-headed human figure
Ashtoreth " Baalah - The moon goddess of the Phoenicians, representing the passive principle in nature, their principal female deity; frequently associated with the name of
Baal, the sun-god, their chief male deity #Jud 10:6 1Sa 7:4 12:10 These names often occur in the plural (Ashtaroth, Baalim), probably as indicating either different statues or different modifications of the deities. This deity is spoken of as Ashtoreth of the
Zidonians. She was the Ishtar of the Accadians and the Astarte of the Greeks #1Ki
11:5,33 2Ki 23:13 There was a temple of this goddess among the Philistines in the time of Saul #1Sa 31:10 Under the name of Ishtar, she was one of the great deities of the Assyrians. The Phoenicians called her Astarte. Solomon introduced the worship of this idol #1Ki 11:33 Jezebel's 400 priests were probably employed in its service #1Ki 18:19 It was called the "queen of heaven" #Jer 44:25
Milcom, Malcham =" great king" 1) the god of the Ammonites and Phoenicians to whom some Israelites sacrificed their infants in the valley of Hinnom
1a) also Molech
Moloch, Molech - King, the name of the national god of the Ammonites, to whom
children were sacrificed by fire. He was the consuming and destroying and also at the
same time the purifying fire. In #Am 5:26 "your Moloch" of the Authorized Version is
"your king" in the Revised Version (comp.) #Ac 7:43 Solomon #1Ki 11:7 erected a high place for this idol on the Mount of Olives, and from that time till the days of Josiah his worship continued #2Ki 23:10,13 In the days of Jehoahaz it was partially restored, but after the Captivity wholly disappeared. He is also called Molech #Le 18:21 20:2-5 etc.,
Milcom #1Ki 11:5,33 etc., and Malcham #Zep 1:5 This god became Chemosh among the Moabites.
Chemosh - The destroyer, subduer, or fish-god, the god of the Moabites #Nu 21:29 Jer 48:7,13,46 The worship of this god, "the abomination of Moab," was introduced at Jerusalem by Solomon #1Ki 11:7 but was abolished by Josiah #2Ki 23:13 On the
"Moabite Stone" (q.v.), Mesha #2Ki 3:5 ascribes his victories over the king of Israel to this god, "And Chemosh drove him before my sight."
Chemosh =" subduer" 1) the national deity of the Moabites and a god of the Ammonites
1a) also identified with Baal-peor, Baal-zebub, Mars and Saturn
Dagon - Little fish; diminutive from dag a fish, the fish-god; the national god of the
Philistines #Jud 16:23 This idol had the body of a fish with the head and hands of a man. It was an Assyrio-Babylonian deity, the worship of which was introduced among the Philistines through Chaldea. The most famous of the temples of Dagon were at Gaza #Jud 16:23-30 and Ashdod #1Sa 5:1-7 Had priests and diviners.
Merodach " thy rebellion, Death; slaughter, the name of a Babylonian god #Jer 50:2. This name frequently occurs as a surname to the kings of Assyria and Babylon. He is normally referred to as Bel "Lord", also bel rabim "great lord", bl blim "lord of lords", ab-kal ilni bl terti "leader of the gods", aklu bl terieti "the wise, lord of oracles", muballit mte "receiver of the dead", etc.
Chiun =" an image" or "pillar", Occurs only in #Am 5:26 (R.V. marg., "shrine"). The
LXX. translated the word by Rhephan, which became corrupted into Remphan, as used by Stephen #Ac 7:43 but R.V., "Rephan"). Probably the planet Saturn is intended by the name. Astrologers represented this planet as baleful in its influences, and hence the Phoenicians offered to it human sacrifices, especially children. He is the Phoenician god Molech.
Baal - Lord.
1. The name appropriated to the principal male god of the Phoenicians. It is found in
several places in the plural BAALIM #Jud 2:11 10:10 1Ki 18:18 Jer 2:23 Ho 2:17 Baal is identified with Molech #Jer 19:5 It was known to the Israelites as Baal-peor #Nu 25:3 De 4:3 was worshipped till the time of Samuel #1Sa 7:4 and was afterwards the religion of the ten tribes in the time of Ahab #1Ki 16:31-33 18:19,22 It prevailed also for a time in the kingdom of Judah #2Ki 8:27 comp. #2Ki 11:18 16:3 #2Ch 28:2 till finally put an end to by the severe discipline of the Captivity #Zep 1:4-6 The priests of Baal were in great numbers #1Ki 18:19 and of various classes #2Ki 10:19 Their mode of offering sacrifices is described in #1Ki 18:25-29 The sun-god, under the general title of Baal, or "lord," was the chief object of worship of the Canaanites. Each locality had its special Baal, and the various local Baals were summed up under the name of Baalim, or "lords." Each Baal had a wife, who was a colourless reflection of himself.
Baal-peor - Lord of the opening/gap/vagina, a god of the Moabites #Nu 25:3 31:16 Jos 22:17 worshipped by obscene rites. So called from Mount Peor, where this worship was celebrated, the Baal of Peor. The Israelites fell into the worship of this idol #Nu 25:3,5,18 De 4:3 Ps 106:28 Ho 9:10
Baal-hermon or Baal-chermon =" lord of destruction"
1) a city near or on Mount Hermon, named as a seat of Baal worship
Baal-gad - Lord of fortune, or troop of Baal, a Canaanite city in the valley of Lebanon at the foot of Hermon, hence called Baal-hermon #Jud 3:3 1Ch 5:23 near the source of the Jordan #Jos 13:5 11:17 12:7 It was the most northern point to which Joshua's conquests extended. It probably derived its name from the worship of Baal. Its modern representative is Banias. Some have supposed it to be the same as
Baalbec " City of the Sun. Gad was a Babylonian god of fortune or luck.
Baal-zebub - Fly-lord, the god of the Philistines at Ekron #2Ki 1:2,3,16 This name was given to the god because he was supposed to be able to avert the plague of flies which in that region was to be feared. He was consulted (seek Oracle/divination/pithon) by Ahaziah as to his recovery. Divination and pithon are associated with oracles of Apollo.
Baal-meon " Lord of the house/dwelling
Baal-berith " Lord of covenant
Baal-tamar " Lord of the palm tree
Tammuz - A corruption of Dumuzi, the Accadian sun-god (the Adonis of the Greeks), the husband of the goddess Ishtar. In the Chaldean calendar there was a month set apart in honour of this god, the month of June to July, the beginning of the summer solstice. At this festival, which lasted six days, the worshippers, with loud lamentations, bewailed the funeral of the god, they sat "weeping for Tammuz" #Eze 8:14 The name, also borrowed from Chaldea, of one of the months of the Hebrew calendar. Tammuz =" sprout of life"
1) a Sumerian deity of food or vegetation
Bel " Babylonian form of Baal meaning Lord. He was confounded by God.
Nebo - Proclaimer; prophet.
1. A Chaldean god whose worship was introduced into Assyria by Pul #Isa 46:1 Jer 48:1 To this idol was dedicated the great temple whose ruins are still seen at Birs Nimrud. A statue of Nebo found at Calah (Fortress of Anu), where it was set up by Pul, king of Assyria, is now in the British Museum. Babylonian deity who presided over learning and letters; corresponds to Greek Hermes, Latin Mercury, and Egyptian Thoth.
Shazar -
Adonibezek " God of Lightning, this is actually a kings name of the town of Bezek.
What needs to be noted is that he is named after the God of Lighting, Zeus.
Anat (Anath/Anoth) " wisdom or answers prayer - is the familiar name of the
Canaanite goddess identified with Athena in a Cyprian inscription. She is sometimes
identified with Venus. In scripture she is only identified in place names such as Anathoth and Bethanath.
Succothbenoth " tents of the daughters daughters booth " goddess Zir-banit of
Babylon, wife of Merodach
Nergal " Hero, The great dog; that is, lion, one of the chief gods of the Assyrians and Babylonians #2Ki 17:30 the god of war and hunting. He is connected with Cutha as its tutelary deity. Nergal was worshiped after the influences of Mars interfered with the earth causing the planetary destruction of the days of the prophets. He was the primary deity of Rome under the name Mars.
Ashima - " guiltiness: I will make desolate"
Nibhaz - " the barker", a deity of the Avites introduced by them into Samaria in the time of Shalmaneser; idol had the figure of a dog
Tartak - " prince of darkness"
1) one of the deities of the Avite people of Samaria
1a) according to tradition, worshipped under the form of an ass
Adrammelech - Adar the king.
1. An idol; a form of the sun-god worshipped by the inhabitants of Sepharvaim #2Ki
17:31 and brought by the Sepharvite colonists into Samaria.
Adrammelech = "honour of the king" or "Adar is prince" or "Adar is Counsellor,
Decider", Children were passed through the fire for him. Adar " Exceedingly glorious
Anammelech - goddess worshipped by the people of Sepharvaim, who colonized Samaria #2Ki 17:31 The name means "Anu is king." It was a female deity representing the moon, as Adrammelech (q.v.) was the male representing the sun.
Anammelech =" image of the king" an Assyrian false god introduced to Israel during the monarchy; worshiped with rites resembling those of Molech; companion god of
'Adrammelech'
Nisroch = "the great eagle" 1) an idol of Nineveh worshipped by Sennacherib;
symbolised by the eagle-headed human figure
Ashtoreth " Baalah - The moon goddess of the Phoenicians, representing the passive principle in nature, their principal female deity; frequently associated with the name of
Baal, the sun-god, their chief male deity #Jud 10:6 1Sa 7:4 12:10 These names often occur in the plural (Ashtaroth, Baalim), probably as indicating either different statues or different modifications of the deities. This deity is spoken of as Ashtoreth of the
Zidonians. She was the Ishtar of the Accadians and the Astarte of the Greeks #1Ki
11:5,33 2Ki 23:13 There was a temple of this goddess among the Philistines in the time of Saul #1Sa 31:10 Under the name of Ishtar, she was one of the great deities of the Assyrians. The Phoenicians called her Astarte. Solomon introduced the worship of this idol #1Ki 11:33 Jezebel's 400 priests were probably employed in its service #1Ki 18:19 It was called the "queen of heaven" #Jer 44:25
Milcom, Malcham =" great king" 1) the god of the Ammonites and Phoenicians to whom some Israelites sacrificed their infants in the valley of Hinnom
1a) also Molech
Moloch, Molech - King, the name of the national god of the Ammonites, to whom
children were sacrificed by fire. He was the consuming and destroying and also at the
same time the purifying fire. In #Am 5:26 "your Moloch" of the Authorized Version is
"your king" in the Revised Version (comp.) #Ac 7:43 Solomon #1Ki 11:7 erected a high place for this idol on the Mount of Olives, and from that time till the days of Josiah his worship continued #2Ki 23:10,13 In the days of Jehoahaz it was partially restored, but after the Captivity wholly disappeared. He is also called Molech #Le 18:21 20:2-5 etc.,
Milcom #1Ki 11:5,33 etc., and Malcham #Zep 1:5 This god became Chemosh among the Moabites.
Chemosh - The destroyer, subduer, or fish-god, the god of the Moabites #Nu 21:29 Jer 48:7,13,46 The worship of this god, "the abomination of Moab," was introduced at Jerusalem by Solomon #1Ki 11:7 but was abolished by Josiah #2Ki 23:13 On the
"Moabite Stone" (q.v.), Mesha #2Ki 3:5 ascribes his victories over the king of Israel to this god, "And Chemosh drove him before my sight."
Chemosh =" subduer" 1) the national deity of the Moabites and a god of the Ammonites
1a) also identified with Baal-peor, Baal-zebub, Mars and Saturn
Dagon - Little fish; diminutive from dag a fish, the fish-god; the national god of the
Philistines #Jud 16:23 This idol had the body of a fish with the head and hands of a man. It was an Assyrio-Babylonian deity, the worship of which was introduced among the Philistines through Chaldea. The most famous of the temples of Dagon were at Gaza #Jud 16:23-30 and Ashdod #1Sa 5:1-7 Had priests and diviners.
Merodach " thy rebellion, Death; slaughter, the name of a Babylonian god #Jer 50:2. This name frequently occurs as a surname to the kings of Assyria and Babylon. He is normally referred to as Bel "Lord", also bel rabim "great lord", bl blim "lord of lords", ab-kal ilni bl terti "leader of the gods", aklu bl terieti "the wise, lord of oracles", muballit mte "receiver of the dead", etc.
Chiun =" an image" or "pillar", Occurs only in #Am 5:26 (R.V. marg., "shrine"). The
LXX. translated the word by Rhephan, which became corrupted into Remphan, as used by Stephen #Ac 7:43 but R.V., "Rephan"). Probably the planet Saturn is intended by the name. Astrologers represented this planet as baleful in its influences, and hence the Phoenicians offered to it human sacrifices, especially children. He is the Phoenician god Molech.
Baal - Lord.
1. The name appropriated to the principal male god of the Phoenicians. It is found in
several places in the plural BAALIM #Jud 2:11 10:10 1Ki 18:18 Jer 2:23 Ho 2:17 Baal is identified with Molech #Jer 19:5 It was known to the Israelites as Baal-peor #Nu 25:3 De 4:3 was worshipped till the time of Samuel #1Sa 7:4 and was afterwards the religion of the ten tribes in the time of Ahab #1Ki 16:31-33 18:19,22 It prevailed also for a time in the kingdom of Judah #2Ki 8:27 comp. #2Ki 11:18 16:3 #2Ch 28:2 till finally put an end to by the severe discipline of the Captivity #Zep 1:4-6 The priests of Baal were in great numbers #1Ki 18:19 and of various classes #2Ki 10:19 Their mode of offering sacrifices is described in #1Ki 18:25-29 The sun-god, under the general title of Baal, or "lord," was the chief object of worship of the Canaanites. Each locality had its special Baal, and the various local Baals were summed up under the name of Baalim, or "lords." Each Baal had a wife, who was a colourless reflection of himself.
Baal-peor - Lord of the opening/gap/vagina, a god of the Moabites #Nu 25:3 31:16 Jos 22:17 worshipped by obscene rites. So called from Mount Peor, where this worship was celebrated, the Baal of Peor. The Israelites fell into the worship of this idol #Nu 25:3,5,18 De 4:3 Ps 106:28 Ho 9:10
Baal-hermon or Baal-chermon =" lord of destruction"
1) a city near or on Mount Hermon, named as a seat of Baal worship
Baal-gad - Lord of fortune, or troop of Baal, a Canaanite city in the valley of Lebanon at the foot of Hermon, hence called Baal-hermon #Jud 3:3 1Ch 5:23 near the source of the Jordan #Jos 13:5 11:17 12:7 It was the most northern point to which Joshua's conquests extended. It probably derived its name from the worship of Baal. Its modern representative is Banias. Some have supposed it to be the same as
Baalbec " City of the Sun. Gad was a Babylonian god of fortune or luck.
Baal-zebub - Fly-lord, the god of the Philistines at Ekron #2Ki 1:2,3,16 This name was given to the god because he was supposed to be able to avert the plague of flies which in that region was to be feared. He was consulted (seek Oracle/divination/pithon) by Ahaziah as to his recovery. Divination and pithon are associated with oracles of Apollo.
Baal-meon " Lord of the house/dwelling
Baal-berith " Lord of covenant
Baal-tamar " Lord of the palm tree
Tammuz - A corruption of Dumuzi, the Accadian sun-god (the Adonis of the Greeks), the husband of the goddess Ishtar. In the Chaldean calendar there was a month set apart in honour of this god, the month of June to July, the beginning of the summer solstice. At this festival, which lasted six days, the worshippers, with loud lamentations, bewailed the funeral of the god, they sat "weeping for Tammuz" #Eze 8:14 The name, also borrowed from Chaldea, of one of the months of the Hebrew calendar. Tammuz =" sprout of life"
1) a Sumerian deity of food or vegetation
Bel " Babylonian form of Baal meaning Lord. He was confounded by God.
Nebo - Proclaimer; prophet.
1. A Chaldean god whose worship was introduced into Assyria by Pul #Isa 46:1 Jer 48:1 To this idol was dedicated the great temple whose ruins are still seen at Birs Nimrud. A statue of Nebo found at Calah (Fortress of Anu), where it was set up by Pul, king of Assyria, is now in the British Museum. Babylonian deity who presided over learning and letters; corresponds to Greek Hermes, Latin Mercury, and Egyptian Thoth.
Shazar -
Adonibezek " God of Lightning, this is actually a kings name of the town of Bezek.
What needs to be noted is that he is named after the God of Lighting, Zeus.
Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #58Clues to the false gods worshipped in the land of Canaan are found throughout the land in the names of places. Many of the name meanings of the kings, cities, valley and rivers are references back to the false gods worshiped throughout the land.
Here is a list of some of the names and their meanings:
Bezek - lightning
Adonibezek " My Lord of Lightning, Zeus
Beneberak " children of lightning, a reference to the children of Zeus
Hazarsusah " village of Mare
Zarethshahar - splendor of the dawn/morning/Zeus
Bethpazzez " house of the scattering/dispersion
Irpeel - god who heals/physician
Eltolad - descendents of false gods
Jezreel " god who scatters his seed
Bethshemesh " house of the sun god
Irshemesh " city of the sun god
Enshemesh " fountain/spring of the sun god
Hammath " hot springs of the sun
Sisera " servant of Ra, the sun god
Mount Heres " mountain of the sun
Japho " to be bright/beautiful
Japhia " to shine forth, bring light
Jair - he enlightens/shines
Chinnereth - lyre, harps
Migdalel " tower god
Migdalgad " tower god of fortune
Mizpeh " watchtower
Ramathmizpeh - high place of the watchtower
Ibleam - destroyer of the people/nations
Ashdod " powerful, destroyer
Bethaven - house of vanity, idolatry, wickedness (aven is associated with On the sun god of lower Egypt)
Jokdeam " burns people
Eshtaol - consult of oracle/diety
Kirjathsannah - city of the book/prophecy
Atarothadar " crowns/wreaths of exceeding glory
Bethanath " house of Anath (the Canaanite name for the goddess Athena)
Anathoth " answers to prayers, a reference to Anath (Athena) as goddess of wisdom
Enrogel - fount of the virgin, spring of the slanderer/spy/talebearer
Baalah " mistress/Ashtoreth
Baalathbeer - mistress of the well
Bethlebaoth " house of the mature lioness
Kirjath " city of the grove
Kirjathjearim - city of the grove/forest
Bethhoron - house of hollowness/cave/hole, whorehouse
Bethpeor - house of the cleft/gaping opening, whorehouse
Achshaph - I shall be bewitched
Ashnah - I will cause change
Ajalon - field of deer
Ophrah - young deer, fawn, stag, hart
Taanathshiloh - to meet for a sexual encounter at a place of rest
Bizjothjah - to dispise Yah/God
Ithnan - dragon, sea or river monster (Rahab, Leviathan, Poseidon)
Maalehacrabbim - chief scorpion
Kirjathbaal " city of Baal
Bethnimrah - house of the leopard (Nimrod)
Betharam - house of exalted height
Nephtoah - to open, to loosen oneself " sexual reference
Jiphtah - he opens
Jiphthahel - god who causes one to open oneself
Field of Zophim " field (womb) of the watchers (fallen angels)
Kanah - reed, beam, balancing scale, measuring rod
Here is a list of some of the names and their meanings:
Bezek - lightning
Adonibezek " My Lord of Lightning, Zeus
Beneberak " children of lightning, a reference to the children of Zeus
Hazarsusah " village of Mare
Zarethshahar - splendor of the dawn/morning/Zeus
Bethpazzez " house of the scattering/dispersion
Irpeel - god who heals/physician
Eltolad - descendents of false gods
Jezreel " god who scatters his seed
Bethshemesh " house of the sun god
Irshemesh " city of the sun god
Enshemesh " fountain/spring of the sun god
Hammath " hot springs of the sun
Sisera " servant of Ra, the sun god
Mount Heres " mountain of the sun
Japho " to be bright/beautiful
Japhia " to shine forth, bring light
Jair - he enlightens/shines
Chinnereth - lyre, harps
Migdalel " tower god
Migdalgad " tower god of fortune
Mizpeh " watchtower
Ramathmizpeh - high place of the watchtower
Ibleam - destroyer of the people/nations
Ashdod " powerful, destroyer
Bethaven - house of vanity, idolatry, wickedness (aven is associated with On the sun god of lower Egypt)
Jokdeam " burns people
Eshtaol - consult of oracle/diety
Kirjathsannah - city of the book/prophecy
Atarothadar " crowns/wreaths of exceeding glory
Bethanath " house of Anath (the Canaanite name for the goddess Athena)
Anathoth " answers to prayers, a reference to Anath (Athena) as goddess of wisdom
Enrogel - fount of the virgin, spring of the slanderer/spy/talebearer
Baalah " mistress/Ashtoreth
Baalathbeer - mistress of the well
Bethlebaoth " house of the mature lioness
Kirjath " city of the grove
Kirjathjearim - city of the grove/forest
Bethhoron - house of hollowness/cave/hole, whorehouse
Bethpeor - house of the cleft/gaping opening, whorehouse
Achshaph - I shall be bewitched
Ashnah - I will cause change
Ajalon - field of deer
Ophrah - young deer, fawn, stag, hart
Taanathshiloh - to meet for a sexual encounter at a place of rest
Bizjothjah - to dispise Yah/God
Ithnan - dragon, sea or river monster (Rahab, Leviathan, Poseidon)
Maalehacrabbim - chief scorpion
Kirjathbaal " city of Baal
Bethnimrah - house of the leopard (Nimrod)
Betharam - house of exalted height
Nephtoah - to open, to loosen oneself " sexual reference
Jiphtah - he opens
Jiphthahel - god who causes one to open oneself
Field of Zophim " field (womb) of the watchers (fallen angels)
Kanah - reed, beam, balancing scale, measuring rod
Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #59False Teaching on Lucifer
Many will say that Lucifer cant be Apollo the son of Zeus due to misunderstanding the following scripture:
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king (Molech) of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden (pleasure) the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created (of birth).
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created (of birth), till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Tyrus was one of the primary cities of Moloch worship. The King of Tyrus is a reference to Molech. Tyrus was the daughter city of Sidon, a stronghold of Ashtoreth worship. Jezebel (Baal is my husband), the princess of Sidon implemented Baalim (Baal, Ashtoreth, Molech) worship in Israel. She was a high priestess of Ashtoreth. Sidon, the firstborn son of Canaan founded the city of Sidon. He was the firstborn of the curse of Noah. On a side note, what did Canaan do to warrant such a curse? Sidon was the first cousin of Nimrod through his father Canaan, the brother of Cush, the father of Nimrod. Sidon means hunting while Nimrod was the mighty hunter and both Apollo and Artemis were, among other things, god and goddess of hunting. Sidon was a close relative, possibly even a half brother of Nimrod through his mother Semaramis, one of the names of Artemis.
This prophecy once again ties Lucifer to Moloch. It is the passage that many people falsely assume is a reference to Lucifer as the worship leader in Heaven because of his musical abilities because of the phrase: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. What must be noted is that the word created that is translated in scripture is not the created as in the creation of the earth or Adam but the created of birth. He was born with musical talent! Apollo was also the god of music. It also references the day (day, year, period of time) he was created while the sons of God where present at the laying the foundations of the earth before the completion of the first day.
Another argument against Apollo being Lucifer stems from the reference to the Garden of Eden. It is assumed that the garden is a reference to the earthly Garden of Eden that was destroyed by the flood. It is also assumed that Lucifer was the serpent in that Garden of Eden. There is one problem with that assumption; there is another Garden of Eden (garden of Gods pleasure) in Heaven. There is a Jerusalem on earth and the New Jerusalem in Heaven. There is a mountain of God on earth and in Heaven. There was a temple of God on earth and is one in Heaven. There is also a Heavenly Garden of Gods Pleasure or Garden of Eden in Heaven that now contains the tree of life.
Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise (Eden) of God.
Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
The Tree of Life is now only in Gods heavenly garden and lining the streets of the Heavenly city. This is the garden that Lucifer walked in, not the earthly garden. This can be proven with the phrase: thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. This gives us another clue that this is a reference to the Heavenly garden, not the earthly garden. The stones of fire are a reference to the foundation stones of the Heavenly city. All this passage is saying is that Lucifer has walked in Heaven. We know from the book of Job that he visited the throne room of God as the accuser of the brethren.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
This passage in John states that his first sin was murder and matches with the phrase By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned. His first sin was murder, not deception in the Garden of Eden. Lucifer was not in the earthly Garden of Eden. He was not born until after the flood. All the fallen angels from before the flood are chained in the deepest part of hell.
A covering cherub is a winged being. Most people assume that he has to be an angle but remember that the lion in Daniel was a winged lion that had his wings plucked by God. The fiery flying serpent was the fruit, child, son of the cockatrice. He was the winged son of the cockatrice but God pluck his wings. The paintings of winged babies (cherubs) are taken from pagan temples of antiquity. The sons of God (angles) are not born but created full grown, as were Adam and Eve. Serpents in scripture are a representation of fallen angels and their offspring. In the New Testament the term sons of God is a reference to the saints. We had to be born again into a new creation to become sons of God.
Isa 59:5 They hatch cockatrice eggs, and weave the spiders web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
The offspring of the cockatrice eggs are also serpents, vipers. The weaving of the spiders web will be covered in the Job commentary. The spider is a reference to Ashtoreth.
Another thing to note is the list of gems. The gems listed are a subset of the gems listed for the Ephod breastplate of judgment of the High Priest of Israel but Lucifer has several of the gems missing. Each of the gems represents a different tribe and an attribute of that tribe that was required of the High Priest. He is missing three of those gems. He does not qualify for the high priesthood. He could not be a High Priest in Heaven. God created him with 9 of the attributes but not all 12.
Exe 28:17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
He is missing an entire row out of the Ephod. He is missing the ligure (jacinth) of Gad, the agate of Asher and the amethyst of Issachar. Lucifer is deigned by God the attributes of these tribes in his character. Many times he tries to portray himself as having the attributes but they are false representations.
Gems
Ligure or Jacinth is a deep blue gem that represents the color of the heavens and the purifying fire of God. Lucifer tried to raise himself up on high through self-promotion in his pride while passing children through the fire in an attempt to purge the ungodly human flesh while preserving the angelic i.e. godly flesh of his offspring. Angelic flesh is fire resistant. Scripture states that angels were created of fire while man is created of earth. Children that failed to survive were considered unworthy. Eventually, none of the children would survive as the angelic bloodline diluted and the practice devolved into destroying the unwanted children of the unrestrained sexual practices. This led to the child sacrifices to Molech.
According to Bulfinchs Mythology, chapter 32, The Infernal Regions, Greek mythology teaches that creation is made up of fire, air, earth and water when united took on the most excellent part; fire. The more earth in a composition the less pure the individual. This impurity is purged away by ventilating the souls in the currents of winds, or merging them in water, or burning out their impurities by fire. Lucifer tries to be the purifying fire in others by passing them through the fires of hell. He tries to be God.
Ligure is the gem of the tribe of Gad. Lucifer even takes on Gad as one of his names with the title Baalgad, the lord of fortune. Gad is the name of the Babylonian god of fortune, prosperity and luck. Even the word luck is derived from Lucifer. There are also two cities in the land of Canaan dedicated to this name, Hazargaddah (village of gad) and Migdalgad (tower of gad) with the tower referring back to the tower of Babel.
Gad means a troop or fortune, to attack, to overcome, to invade and to gather together. These are attributes that he tried to achieve on his own outside of the will of God. He gathered a troop to attacked, invaded, overcome the region around Babel to gather men under his control to raise the tower, to raise himself on high.
The symbol for the tribe of Gad is three tents. Gad was a tribe of herdsmen that did not build permanent homes. Apollo is a god of shepherding but instead built permanent houses and took on the title of Baal-meon, the lord of the house/dwelling. He is the false Shepard.
De 33:20 And of Gad he said, Blessed be he that enlargeth Gad: he dwelleth as a lion, and teareth the arm with the crown of the head.
21 And he provided the first part for himself, because there, in a portion of the lawgiver, was he seated; and he came with the heads of the people, he executed the justice of the LORD, and his judgments with Israel.
Lucifer took on the lion as his symbol and crowned himself with crowns of glory while operating in might. Atarothaddar (crowns or wreaths of exceeding glory) is one of the cities in the land of Canaan while Adrammelech (Adar " exceedingly glorious - is the king) is one of his names in scripture. Adrammelech was a sun god that was worshiped in Sumaria with child sacrifice who was worshiped in conjunction with Anammelech (anu is king or image of the king) the moon goddess. Apollo implemented games with the prizes being crowns of Loral leaves as crowns of glory for the winners.
He does not execute the justice of the Lord. He is a lawgiver that dominates and rules in injustice. Gad was also known for their mighty warriors. They were fierce as lions in battle but he is a cowardly fighter opting for the bow of an archer verses the face-to-face warfare of the sword. Apollo is the god of archery and hunting but not of open warfare. That title falls to his half-brother, Ares, the god of war.
The agate is the gem of the tribe of Asher. The root is ashar, meaning to be straight, level, right, to go forward, be honest, prosper, bless, blessed, lead. He fails at nearly all these. He is crooked, wrong, backslidden, a liar, curses, is cursed and rules instead of leads. He does claim to be the god of fortune, of prosperity.
The symbol of Asher is the olive tree. The oil of the olive tree is a representation of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. This is another attribute he lacks. He does not have the anointing of the Holy Spirit. He is anointed with musical talent but that is represented by one of the gems he was granted by God.
De 33:24 And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil.
25 Thy shoes shall be iron and brass; and as thy days, so shall thy strength be.
Lucifer is NOT blessed with children as seen in the previous passage in Isaiah about Lucifer:
Isa 14:20 the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
The anointed foot with shoes of iron and brass speak of anointed judgment. Lucifer tries to be a judge but is not anointed.
The amethyst is the gemstone of the tribe of Issachar. The name is derived from the Greek word amethystos, which means, not intoxicating. We know that drunkenness falls under Lucifers domain.
The symbol of Issachar is the humble donkey that bears the double burden. This is definitely not an attribute of Lucifer. His primary sin is pride, the total lack of humility.
The following scriptures are the prophecies conserning Issachar by Jacob and Moses:
Gen 49:14 Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens:
15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.
De 33: 18 And of Zebulun he said, Rejoice, Zebulun, in thy going out; and, Issachar, in thy tents.
19 They shall call the people unto the mountain; there they shall offer sacrifices of righteousness: for they shall suck of the abundance of the seas, and of treasures hid in the sand.
Lucifer saw that rest was good and that it was pleasant but he did NOT become a servant unto tribute. He became a ruler that took tribute. He did call the people to the mountain to offer sacrifices at his high places but they were not sacrifices of righteousness. He did suck of the abundance of the seas (spiritual realm) and of the treasures of the earth (another spiritual realm). He tried to meet the attributes of Issachar but in his own power but failed miserably at the core elements.
As we can see, the passage in Eze 28 is describing what Lucifer is as well as what he is not. Many people read into, or misunderstand the passage. Considering that Lucifer is the father of lies, he wants us to assume that he is greater then he really is. Many people propagate his lies that he was the greatest of all creation, the worship leader in heaven. Who could be the author of these lies?
Lucifer even takes credit for the original fall of man in the garden. He wasnt even born at that time. I believe it is the book of Enoch that states the names of the angels that fell before the flood. It even names the angel that was in the garden. It was not Lucifer.
Many will say that Lucifer cant be Apollo the son of Zeus due to misunderstanding the following scripture:
Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king (Molech) of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden (pleasure) the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created (of birth).
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created (of birth), till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Tyrus was one of the primary cities of Moloch worship. The King of Tyrus is a reference to Molech. Tyrus was the daughter city of Sidon, a stronghold of Ashtoreth worship. Jezebel (Baal is my husband), the princess of Sidon implemented Baalim (Baal, Ashtoreth, Molech) worship in Israel. She was a high priestess of Ashtoreth. Sidon, the firstborn son of Canaan founded the city of Sidon. He was the firstborn of the curse of Noah. On a side note, what did Canaan do to warrant such a curse? Sidon was the first cousin of Nimrod through his father Canaan, the brother of Cush, the father of Nimrod. Sidon means hunting while Nimrod was the mighty hunter and both Apollo and Artemis were, among other things, god and goddess of hunting. Sidon was a close relative, possibly even a half brother of Nimrod through his mother Semaramis, one of the names of Artemis.
This prophecy once again ties Lucifer to Moloch. It is the passage that many people falsely assume is a reference to Lucifer as the worship leader in Heaven because of his musical abilities because of the phrase: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. What must be noted is that the word created that is translated in scripture is not the created as in the creation of the earth or Adam but the created of birth. He was born with musical talent! Apollo was also the god of music. It also references the day (day, year, period of time) he was created while the sons of God where present at the laying the foundations of the earth before the completion of the first day.
Another argument against Apollo being Lucifer stems from the reference to the Garden of Eden. It is assumed that the garden is a reference to the earthly Garden of Eden that was destroyed by the flood. It is also assumed that Lucifer was the serpent in that Garden of Eden. There is one problem with that assumption; there is another Garden of Eden (garden of Gods pleasure) in Heaven. There is a Jerusalem on earth and the New Jerusalem in Heaven. There is a mountain of God on earth and in Heaven. There was a temple of God on earth and is one in Heaven. There is also a Heavenly Garden of Gods Pleasure or Garden of Eden in Heaven that now contains the tree of life.
Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise (Eden) of God.
Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
The Tree of Life is now only in Gods heavenly garden and lining the streets of the Heavenly city. This is the garden that Lucifer walked in, not the earthly garden. This can be proven with the phrase: thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. This gives us another clue that this is a reference to the Heavenly garden, not the earthly garden. The stones of fire are a reference to the foundation stones of the Heavenly city. All this passage is saying is that Lucifer has walked in Heaven. We know from the book of Job that he visited the throne room of God as the accuser of the brethren.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
This passage in John states that his first sin was murder and matches with the phrase By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned. His first sin was murder, not deception in the Garden of Eden. Lucifer was not in the earthly Garden of Eden. He was not born until after the flood. All the fallen angels from before the flood are chained in the deepest part of hell.
A covering cherub is a winged being. Most people assume that he has to be an angle but remember that the lion in Daniel was a winged lion that had his wings plucked by God. The fiery flying serpent was the fruit, child, son of the cockatrice. He was the winged son of the cockatrice but God pluck his wings. The paintings of winged babies (cherubs) are taken from pagan temples of antiquity. The sons of God (angles) are not born but created full grown, as were Adam and Eve. Serpents in scripture are a representation of fallen angels and their offspring. In the New Testament the term sons of God is a reference to the saints. We had to be born again into a new creation to become sons of God.
Isa 59:5 They hatch cockatrice eggs, and weave the spiders web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
The offspring of the cockatrice eggs are also serpents, vipers. The weaving of the spiders web will be covered in the Job commentary. The spider is a reference to Ashtoreth.
Another thing to note is the list of gems. The gems listed are a subset of the gems listed for the Ephod breastplate of judgment of the High Priest of Israel but Lucifer has several of the gems missing. Each of the gems represents a different tribe and an attribute of that tribe that was required of the High Priest. He is missing three of those gems. He does not qualify for the high priesthood. He could not be a High Priest in Heaven. God created him with 9 of the attributes but not all 12.
Exe 28:17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
He is missing an entire row out of the Ephod. He is missing the ligure (jacinth) of Gad, the agate of Asher and the amethyst of Issachar. Lucifer is deigned by God the attributes of these tribes in his character. Many times he tries to portray himself as having the attributes but they are false representations.
Gems
Ligure or Jacinth is a deep blue gem that represents the color of the heavens and the purifying fire of God. Lucifer tried to raise himself up on high through self-promotion in his pride while passing children through the fire in an attempt to purge the ungodly human flesh while preserving the angelic i.e. godly flesh of his offspring. Angelic flesh is fire resistant. Scripture states that angels were created of fire while man is created of earth. Children that failed to survive were considered unworthy. Eventually, none of the children would survive as the angelic bloodline diluted and the practice devolved into destroying the unwanted children of the unrestrained sexual practices. This led to the child sacrifices to Molech.
According to Bulfinchs Mythology, chapter 32, The Infernal Regions, Greek mythology teaches that creation is made up of fire, air, earth and water when united took on the most excellent part; fire. The more earth in a composition the less pure the individual. This impurity is purged away by ventilating the souls in the currents of winds, or merging them in water, or burning out their impurities by fire. Lucifer tries to be the purifying fire in others by passing them through the fires of hell. He tries to be God.
Ligure is the gem of the tribe of Gad. Lucifer even takes on Gad as one of his names with the title Baalgad, the lord of fortune. Gad is the name of the Babylonian god of fortune, prosperity and luck. Even the word luck is derived from Lucifer. There are also two cities in the land of Canaan dedicated to this name, Hazargaddah (village of gad) and Migdalgad (tower of gad) with the tower referring back to the tower of Babel.
Gad means a troop or fortune, to attack, to overcome, to invade and to gather together. These are attributes that he tried to achieve on his own outside of the will of God. He gathered a troop to attacked, invaded, overcome the region around Babel to gather men under his control to raise the tower, to raise himself on high.
The symbol for the tribe of Gad is three tents. Gad was a tribe of herdsmen that did not build permanent homes. Apollo is a god of shepherding but instead built permanent houses and took on the title of Baal-meon, the lord of the house/dwelling. He is the false Shepard.
De 33:20 And of Gad he said, Blessed be he that enlargeth Gad: he dwelleth as a lion, and teareth the arm with the crown of the head.
21 And he provided the first part for himself, because there, in a portion of the lawgiver, was he seated; and he came with the heads of the people, he executed the justice of the LORD, and his judgments with Israel.
Lucifer took on the lion as his symbol and crowned himself with crowns of glory while operating in might. Atarothaddar (crowns or wreaths of exceeding glory) is one of the cities in the land of Canaan while Adrammelech (Adar " exceedingly glorious - is the king) is one of his names in scripture. Adrammelech was a sun god that was worshiped in Sumaria with child sacrifice who was worshiped in conjunction with Anammelech (anu is king or image of the king) the moon goddess. Apollo implemented games with the prizes being crowns of Loral leaves as crowns of glory for the winners.
He does not execute the justice of the Lord. He is a lawgiver that dominates and rules in injustice. Gad was also known for their mighty warriors. They were fierce as lions in battle but he is a cowardly fighter opting for the bow of an archer verses the face-to-face warfare of the sword. Apollo is the god of archery and hunting but not of open warfare. That title falls to his half-brother, Ares, the god of war.
The agate is the gem of the tribe of Asher. The root is ashar, meaning to be straight, level, right, to go forward, be honest, prosper, bless, blessed, lead. He fails at nearly all these. He is crooked, wrong, backslidden, a liar, curses, is cursed and rules instead of leads. He does claim to be the god of fortune, of prosperity.
The symbol of Asher is the olive tree. The oil of the olive tree is a representation of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. This is another attribute he lacks. He does not have the anointing of the Holy Spirit. He is anointed with musical talent but that is represented by one of the gems he was granted by God.
De 33:24 And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil.
25 Thy shoes shall be iron and brass; and as thy days, so shall thy strength be.
Lucifer is NOT blessed with children as seen in the previous passage in Isaiah about Lucifer:
Isa 14:20 the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
The anointed foot with shoes of iron and brass speak of anointed judgment. Lucifer tries to be a judge but is not anointed.
The amethyst is the gemstone of the tribe of Issachar. The name is derived from the Greek word amethystos, which means, not intoxicating. We know that drunkenness falls under Lucifers domain.
The symbol of Issachar is the humble donkey that bears the double burden. This is definitely not an attribute of Lucifer. His primary sin is pride, the total lack of humility.
The following scriptures are the prophecies conserning Issachar by Jacob and Moses:
Gen 49:14 Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens:
15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.
De 33: 18 And of Zebulun he said, Rejoice, Zebulun, in thy going out; and, Issachar, in thy tents.
19 They shall call the people unto the mountain; there they shall offer sacrifices of righteousness: for they shall suck of the abundance of the seas, and of treasures hid in the sand.
Lucifer saw that rest was good and that it was pleasant but he did NOT become a servant unto tribute. He became a ruler that took tribute. He did call the people to the mountain to offer sacrifices at his high places but they were not sacrifices of righteousness. He did suck of the abundance of the seas (spiritual realm) and of the treasures of the earth (another spiritual realm). He tried to meet the attributes of Issachar but in his own power but failed miserably at the core elements.
As we can see, the passage in Eze 28 is describing what Lucifer is as well as what he is not. Many people read into, or misunderstand the passage. Considering that Lucifer is the father of lies, he wants us to assume that he is greater then he really is. Many people propagate his lies that he was the greatest of all creation, the worship leader in heaven. Who could be the author of these lies?
Lucifer even takes credit for the original fall of man in the garden. He wasnt even born at that time. I believe it is the book of Enoch that states the names of the angels that fell before the flood. It even names the angel that was in the garden. It was not Lucifer.
Re: How can Lucifer be a fallen angel?
Post #60Yet one of the spiritual gifts is 'discernment of spirits'. So I am assuming that even with your 'spirit filled, drunk in the holy ghost' you don't operate in the gift of 'discernment of spirits'. If you did, you wouldn't have any problem with the presence of spirits, ghosts, angels, demons, ...Clownboat wrote:As a born again, spirit filled, drunk in the holy ghost, street evangelizing missionary of 2 decades, your words mean nothing to me. Your words above are made out of ignorance. Gotta love me the irony though.Yahu wrote: You mean they are make believe due to your total lack of personal experience.
A lack of experience does not impart any knowledge. It is the absence of knowledge, ie ignorance.
It is like a man blind from birth contesting his belief in colors.
