Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

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Zzyzx
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Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

All we “know� about the Satan character is from the POV of Bible writers – who claim that “he� is inferior to “God� (and presumably Jesus).

Since Bible writers and promoters have a vested interest in glorifying their favorite God(s) they could be expected to bad-mouth / demean / discredit the competition.

Since there is no assurance that there is only one “god� (or three-in-one for Christendom), the opposition might be one (or more) of the thousands of proposed gods. In fact, the only “evidence� for any of them consists of unverified tales, testimonials, conjectures, opinions, beliefs.

Thus, is there any sound reason that “Satan� could not be one of the other proposed gods and be equal in “power� to the Bible God?

“The Bible says� is NOT acceptable as proof of truth in this C&A sub-forum or in this thread.

Perhaps “Satan� isn't really the “bad guy� he is made out to be by promoters of the Bible God. Maybe “he� is another one of the “gods� and is equal to the Bible God and/or Jesus – and no more bad or good (or real or unreal) than they are.

It does not seem as though God and/or Jesus are able to defeat or eliminate Satan. Wonder why?
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

JLB32168

Post #151

Post by JLB32168 »

Blastcat wrote:IF you are dealing with me, you better expect me to POINT IT OUT loudly and clearly if you present an OPINION as if it were a fact.
Then you’re going to waste a lot of time typing unnecessary stuff. It’s your life; do with it what you will.
Blastcat wrote:Oh, so you are TOO OBSTINATE to use a phrase like "IMO", but you . . .
I’m not going to write caveats with all of my posts. Discussion about the direct existence of deities are faith based. They might be fact-based but until it’s prove their just faith based. No, I’m still not going to write that caveat before every post and anyone who makes such a demand is being unreasonable. I don’t accommodate unreasonableness.
Blastcat wrote: Is that a speculation or a fact?
Hmmm . . . are we’re pulling things out of our colon for the purpose of teaching everyone here that speculation isn’t fact? I’ll go with “fact.� It is fact that we’re trying to teach the lesson “speculation isn’t fact� and we’re trying to accomplish that via pulling speculations out of our a$$ets, which are located in our wallets – money is what I’m talking about.

[smile]
JLB32168 wrote: It might be accurate and it might be INACCURATE.
But it might be accurate. (Yes, I know you already said that but you’re wrong and I’m right so I should have the last word. That’s fact, BTW.)

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Post #152

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 151 by JLB32168]
I’m not going to write caveats with all of my posts. Discussion about the direct existence of deities are faith based.
So if someone really really believes that Satan is a rival god, and really really has faith, then it is true?

You can get direct evidence through faith? That must be amazing, but how do you know it isn't just a cruel spirit playing a practical joke?
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Post #153

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 151 by JLB32168]
Blastcat wrote:IF you are dealing with me, you better expect me to POINT IT OUT loudly and clearly if you present an OPINION as if it were a fact.
JLB32168 wrote:Then you’re going to waste a lot of time typing unnecessary stuff. It’s your life; do with it what you will.
If you believe that making mistakes is a good thing... then I suppose it's really useless for me to point them out to you. But the readers might be interested in how to avoid those.
Blastcat wrote:Oh, so you are TOO OBSTINATE to use a phrase like "IMO", but you . . .
JLB32168 wrote:I’m not going to write caveats with all of my posts. Discussion about the direct existence of deities are faith based. They might be fact-based but until it’s prove their just faith based. No, I’m still not going to write that caveat before every post and anyone who makes such a demand is being unreasonable. I don’t accommodate unreasonableness.
Sure.. it's your choice.
You can choose to remain as vague as you want to be.
JLB32168 wrote: It might be accurate and it might be INACCURATE.
JLB32168 wrote:But it might be accurate. (Yes, I know you already said that but you’re wrong and I’m right so I should have the last word. That’s fact, BTW.)
Some people might be more interested in having the correct word instead of the last one. It seems that you are using the word "fact" to denote a "joke".

It's hard to tell.

IN ANY CASE... you still haven't answered my question, so I will ask it ONCE again:

"I'm not trying to CLAIM anything.
I am merely speculating about Satan. What are you trying to do? "


:)

JLB32168

Post #154

Post by JLB32168 »

Willum wrote:So if someone really really believes that Satan is a rival god, and really really has faith, then it is true?
How did you get that anybody said anything like that.

What I’m saying is that when I debate questions of faith anyone with common sense should no that a discussion about a faith is speculation and that speculation only might be fact, which is why it is called a faith. I’m not going to qualify every faith discussion that I have with the proviso/rider/disclaimer (whatever you want to call it), “Now, the stuff I’m about to say about Christianity is unproven faith. It might be fact but it might be wrong since that’s the nature of faith. We can’t know for certain if it is true until we die.� Any request to do so it unreasonable so I’m not going to accommodate – probably because I’m obdurate and hard-headed and don’t like being told what to do.

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Post #155

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 154 by JLB32168]

I've been watching you debate, and seeing your mind play things out. I think it's time you joined we non-Abrahamics.

Respectfully,

JLB32168

Post #156

Post by JLB32168 »

Willum wrote: I've been watching you debate, and seeing your mind play things out. I think it's time you joined we non-Abrahamics. Respectfully,
Dude, I did that already. I returned. Right now I’m with Joan of Arc who said, Si je ne suis pas, que Dieu me place là; si je suis, que Dieu me garde. (“If I am not [in God’s grace], may God place me there; if I am, may God so keep me.�)

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Post #157

Post by Zzyzx »

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JLB32168 wrote:
Willum wrote: So if someone really really believes that Satan is a rival god, and really really has faith, then it is true?
How did you get that anybody said anything like that.

What I’m saying is that when I debate questions of faith anyone with common sense should no that a discussion about a faith is speculation and that speculation only might be fact,
Is this to suggest that many Christians here and elsewhere are not included in “anyone with common sense� when they convey that they KNOW that their claims and stories are TRUTH?

If so, I do not disagree.
JLB32168 wrote: which is why it is called a faith.
Believing what one is told without evidence of truth is, in other contexts, often regarded as naivety or gullibility. In religion the preferred euphemism for the same thing is “faith� and is revered or glorified or sought-after (and supposedly, according to some, rewarded in an "afterlife").
JLB32168 wrote: I’m not going to qualify every faith discussion that I have with the proviso/rider/disclaimer (whatever you want to call it), “Now, the stuff I’m about to say about Christianity is unproven faith. It might be fact but it might be wrong since that’s the nature of faith. We can’t know for certain if it is true until we die.� Any request to do so it unreasonable so I’m not going to accommodate – probably because I’m obdurate and hard-headed and don’t like being told what to do.
Is it not dishonorable in reasoned debate to make statements as though factual without qualifiers when they are only opinion?
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Post #158

Post by Wootah »

JLB32168 wrote: Hmmm . . . are we’re pulling things out of our colon for the purpose of teaching everyone here that speculation isn’t fact?

:warning: Moderator Warning

Hi I can almost appreciate how civilly you said that but it's still uncivil to say it.
Please review our Rules.

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Re: Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

Post #159

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Note: The questions seems to be based on the supposition of accepting the content of the bible and I am answering in like without the need to present scientific, verifiable proof of that content or the need for readers to believe in that supposition in order to participate. If the point of debate is actually not the character and position of "Satan" as presented in scripture but rather a request for proof of his existence I will stand corrected.

Zzyzx wrote: .
Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?
Yes, the bible* says there are "many gods" and does indeed present satan as a rival god and {quote} "god of this world".


* I refer to the bible not to say people must believe it to be true but as a referrence to what is often viewed as the chief religious source of the the religion in question (Christianity). I personally believe the information therein to be accurate and true.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

Post #160

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 159 by JehovahsWitness]

And what I believe is considered disrespectful to present on the forum. So that's how solid belief is to say.

(Odd paradigm - your belief, though it may be offensive to gets play, while my belief will offend religionists, and can't.)

Belief is a funny thing, people defend their beliefs more avidly then they defend their children, and will murder over these things that can't be proven, or have no relevance if they do.

So don't use your belief as only statement you are going to make, in the very least it can only cause people to object to it, which is against forum rules.

So, nice belief, are you going to substantiate it?
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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