Is hell eternal or not?

[scorpia]

Just a couple of references;

2 Thess 1 : 7-9 : and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed in heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power .

This verse mentions the final punishment as an everlasting destruction....

Jude 7 : In a similair way, Sodom and Gomorrah and teh surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire

This verse is similair

Rev 20 :14-15 : The death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This verse however mentions the punishment as a "second death"

Perhaps the latter verse doesn't negate that the "second death" is eternal. But then how is death eternal? Does it mean a long eternal period in a process of dying? Or does it mean a person will for the rest of eternity be dead? Is hell eternal or not?

[topaz]

Is hell eternal or not?
No, it is not eternal.

From Rev 20:15 which is the last verse, it says that all those whose names are not written in the book of life was cast into hell. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After this, we see another scenario : a new heaven + a new earth + ALL THINGS NEW. This means ugly hell is no more. Ugliness, suffering, does not exist anymore in God’s creation b/c He creates ALL THINGS NEW.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Hell itself will be completely destroyed and the souls therein are no more in existence … anywhere. According to scripture, this is not a situation God wants us to be in. He wants us with Him in heaven to enjoy all He has to offer.

[joer]

Good Post Topaz!

Vert astute and very observant. An excellent understanding of those verses of revelations! Thank You for sharing that with us.

God Bless You my friend!

[achilles12604]

Is hell eternal or not?
No, it is not eternal.

From Rev 20:15 which is the last verse, it says that all those whose names are not written in the book of life was cast into hell. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After this, we see another scenario : a new heaven + a new earth + ALL THINGS NEW. This means ugly hell is no more. Ugliness, suffering, does not exist anymore in God’s creation b/c He creates ALL THINGS NEW.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Hell itself will be completely destroyed and the souls therein are no more in existence … anywhere. According to scripture, this is not a situation God wants us to be in. He wants us with Him in heaven to enjoy all He has to offer.

As much as I began argueing against this viewpoint, upon further reading, I have to acknowledge that this view point is exactly where the scriptures seems to point. Hence I have altered my viewpoint yet again.

I learn so much here.

[joer]

Cool achilles! I was impressed by this post also. I can't remember looking at those verses in revalations that way before. I think it's excellent to find that truth in Topaz's understanding of those verses.

Now I'm impressed that you were moved by it also. And that your faith isn't crystalized. You're open to spiritual growth!

God Bless You achilles! Peace.

Thanks again Topaz!

[topaz]

Dear Joer and Achilles

Thank you for your kind words. We all learn from each other.

God bless.

[joer]

Amen!

[G-dspeed]

Just a couple of references;

2 Thess 1 : 7-9 : and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed in heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power .

This verse mentions the final punishment as an everlasting destruction....

Jude 7 : In a similair way, Sodom and Gomorrah and teh surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire

This verse is similair

Rev 20 :14-15 : The death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

This verse however mentions the punishment as a "second death"

Perhaps the latter verse doesn't negate that the "second death" is eternal. But then how is death eternal? Does it mean a long eternal period in a process of dying? Or does it mean a person will for the rest of eternity be dead? Is hell eternal or not?

i supose the easiest way of answering this is to point out that there are two bad places you go when you die if you are unsaved by Jesus' blood. the first place is like a holding pen until the day of judgement "hell". hell or the lost side of shio, the lost side of Abrahams Bossom where the rich man went. It is a very hot place with gnashing of teeth and tourment. it also has many levels and at the bottom of it in a place called Tartaros, reserved in chains of darkness are some very bad angels who sinned and will not be released until the day of judgement (2nd peter 2:4).
the second place is more absolute and eternal as it is the final place you go after you die...it is known as the second death because to die once on earth is the first and then eternal damnation is known as the second. it is called "hell" but is known as gehenna or the lake of fire and you go there after you are brought up from shio to be judged by God then if the blood of Jesus does not cover you, you are cast into the lake of fire which was made for the devil and his angels. death and shio will also be thrown into the lake of fire at the very end.

and let me just say this about the lake of fire or hell...it is the absoulute seperation from God for eternity...your body/spirit burns forever an you die forever. how can a person die forever? and how can a spirit burn? the answer is any way God has prepaired.

"are you sure hell is eternal?" let me answer that by asking another question...is the Righteousness, Judgement, Holiness, and perfection of God eternal?

[Truth101]

I notice there is alot of confusion here regarding eternal destruction and what exactly is being destroyed.
Those is agreement with eternal torment or eternal annihilation are confused on one single point that no one but got could remove from their thinking. That is.....

All that is destroyed is the canrnal sinful nature that is in the person, not the person itself.

if any mans work remain he shall recieve a reward and if any mans work (evil, sinful work with none good) be burned (and have no good works) he shall suffer loss (of reward) but he himself shall be saved as through fire. (AS THROUGH fire).

If something goes through something how can that second something still affect the person once they have gone through it? Also, if something is destroyed how can it continue to be destroyed beyond destruction?

This false doctrine of eternal destruction or complete annihilation carries with it a view of God as though He is incapable of working out His plans and purposes unto His desired end and so He is left with no choice but to either sweep these unreachable souls into a pit of sulfer to burn and suffer forever away from His sight or just completely annihilate them all together. This is the doctrine of a failed god, not a triumphent God whos will is above all wills no matter how free you believe your will to be. This is scripture and denial of this issue is futile without twisting our Father words and creating a monsterous god who is incapable of anything unless man wills on his own to follow. So in its finality this doctrine worships and serves the will of man rather than God. They hold their own will above His. When scripture speaks of God being all sovereign and powerful it is speaking of His will not His appearance. Everything that is done in all the heavens is done through His will. How then can mans puny choices deny God His will to save all?

God Bless, Dave

[joer]

Truth101 wrote:

How then can mans puny choices deny God His will to save all?

The only reason Man's puny choices have any effect at all Truth101, is because God will's that humankind have "free will" or "free choice". So you're right about the confusion; it abounds. But through all the confusion I believe Topaz and Achilles have touch on an astute understanding of the scripture in this area. God does not fail if man chooses to deny God. Nor it humankind through it's embrace of error over truth choose annihilation.

I agree with you on the eternal torment that wouldn't make sense. But a choice to cease to exist because of your choice to deny God and not be anything like God or even to be part of God makes sense. It's the balance necessary if "Free Will" is to be real. Otherwise the God you describe would be little more than a dictator of existence not a creator who allows His/Her creation to be WHOLE in His/Her image even unto the reality of God's creature having "free choice" in the direction of his/her OWN creation. And thus in the image of our heavenly Father/Mother we become, to our puny extent, co-creators in God's creation.

We do our part. If we choose to.

So I have to agree with Topaz's understanding of the scripture he shared with us on this subject. I believe you and JC Rep. may not be able to see the value of Topaz's perception. IMHO.

[tambi]

"Hell is not a place you go if you're not a Christian, it’s a failure of your life's greatest ambition"-Im. Tech.

I believe that each will get what they deserve, regardless of religious beliefs, and that God judges people's hearts. It just makes the most sense that way I think.