Rational and civil debate between members of all religions and world views

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Reply to topic
Divine Insight
First Post
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:38 pm  You're a Thief! Reply with quote

Just for the record this post is written for decent people to read. If you actually are a thief, then this post isn't going to make much sense to you.

Let's say that someone comes up to you and says the following:

"You are a thief! All you do is think about how you can get over on other people. All you do is look for opportunities to take what doesn't belong to you. You don't care about anyone but yourself. And you need to change your evil ways."

What would be your first reaction?

Well assuming that you are a decent person and you know these accusations are false, your first reaction would most likely be to ask this accuser, "Where in the world did you even get such a horrible idea about me?"

You know that the accusation is false right? So it's clear to you that all that really needs to be done here is to convince this accuser that these accusations are false. And even if you can't succeed in convincing the accuser that the accusations are false, you still know that they are indeed false accusations.

So, now if these accusations were made by some author of 2000-year-old religious texts what would change? Think

Would you suddenly think, "Gee, I must be a thief who is out to get over on everyone, and I don't care about anyone but myself"?

Surely not?

Questions for Debate:

Why should any decent person believe in an ancient religion that makes accusations toward them that they know to be false anymore than they should believe some stranger who just now came up to them making all manner of false accusations about them today?

Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 41: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:39 pm
Reply
Re: You're a Thief!

Like this post
Divine Insight wrote:

MadeNew wrote:

That word they took "debate" from is the greek word "eridos", which is literally translated as "strife"

Strife:angry or bitter disagreement over fundamental issues; conflict.

FYI


Why is it that when it works in favor of Christian theology a literal interpretation of scriptures is pointed to. But the moment a literal interpretation of the scriptures works against Christian theology a claim is made that the Bible shouldn't be taken literally and a non-literal excuse is given instead.

Looks like a game of musical chairs to me.


We should probably come up with an official name for this behavior.

Maybe the 'Apologist two step', 'Scripture Salsa', 'Fundamentalist Fandango', ... I dunno. There must be something catchy that describes what's going on.

I've got 10 shiny tokens (ok, mostly shiny, they may have pasta sauce on them) to the best name Smile

What?! I like pasta ok? I like to play with my tokens while I eat. I can't figure out what else to do with them.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 42: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:53 pm
Reply
Re: You're a Thief!

Like this post
Willum wrote:

[Replying to MadeNew]
Hi, Madenew - I am sorry, I am not influenced by evil. There is not such thing as evil influence in my world. Actually, I just call evil, "stupidity," and whenever I do something stupid, I just make it up to those people it has harmed.
You believe that there is something god-made called evil, and some character personification of it: I find these concepts personally puerile, like those of the child scared of the monster under the bed, or teenagers who hear a bump in the night after telling scary stories.

Now, would you stop making this personal? It is a fine line on this forum.

But, as to the rest of Jude-Christianity's 'evil:'

Err, Christians and Jews exterminated 54 million indigenous people in the name of the US Manifest Destiny.

Hitler and the Nazi party, as we have discovered killed 11 million people, most of them we not Jews, indeed, it was the Nazis who defined Jewish as anyone with a Jewish grandparent: of those 4 million "Jews," most of them were only Jewish sympathizers. The government was German Protestant, as was he. He is firmly in the Judeo-Christian camp, don't look at me. Just Christians killing Jews, exactly like what was done in the Crusades.

You obviously haven't heard of the Inquisition, but it is not for me to educate you. How much bloodshed and death did Charlemagne bring to Europe in the name of God?

Do you know how many cultures and peoples have been exterminated in the name of Judeo-Christianity? I am guessing the question vexes historians who've studied it.

But I'll hold with my precept: Good generates good, vaccines, peace, and knowledge.
Bad, generates hatred, genocide and ill.

We can see which side Judeo-Christianity is on. It sequestered science and weal, so that people could believe the Sun went round the Earth. There are still sects that teach medicine is bad, a reach-back to Middle Age Christianity. It still promotes the hatred of Jew and Muslims.

I am sorry, going on is making me ill.



Can you show me where Jesus Christ supported these things you are talking about?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 43: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:56 pm
Reply
Re: You're a Thief!

Like this post
[Replying to post 37 by MadeNew]

Quote:
Yes i believe pornography is sinful, i use to be addicted to the stuff and it completely corrupted my thoughts. Thank God! I am being made new! in the last year i have barely seen any pornography. It is the most freeing way to live.

Funny. My own previous attempts (more than one) to stop watching pornography, I would not have described as being 'the most freeing way to live'.

I'd like you to answer my point about your fear being irrational. You brought up the example of Ted Bundy saying that his pornography habits were a [major] factor in his crimes (ignoring entirely that he said quite the opposite at other occasions), but you ignore the fact that despite pornography being consumed in large amounts in the world, the world is not full of necrophiliacs like Ted Bundy.

I can still sorta empathise with the way you think here though. I myself do not drink alcohol. Beyond the fact I don't like the smell or taste, I think it immoral to drink something that alters (in a negative way) one's ability to reason.
At first, my reason for not drinking alcohol was so as to not be like my late uncle, an alcoholic, or my father. However, eventually I realised that those fears were irrational. Now the reason I don't drink alcohol is simply because I don't like the stuff (and it compromises one's ability to think...although the one time in my life where I consumed a few drinks, I didn't even feel buzzed... Confused )

Quote:
Go read the end of Romans 7, Paul struggles with sin, everyone does. Well not everyone, some people deny their sin exists and some only live to do whatever their own corrupt heart desires... This is like a psychopath, they deny anyone else existence, they feel no remorse, and they seek to only fulfill what they personally desire to fulfill. That is like the basics of a psychopath, it is like denying sin even exists.

First, Paul denies that it his himself that is doing anything wrong, but 'sin' as if sin is a thinking entity that possesses him.
"For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature."

Second, before, you didn't say "this is LIKE the basics of a psychopath", you said quote
Quote:
then there are the people who don't even believe in sin. Not believing in sin is the very root of the definition of a psychopath.

You didn't use language indicating a similarity, you said people who don't believe in sin (i.e. myself and others on this website) are psychopaths! You also told a lie, saying this is the 'definition of a psychopath'. I gave rebuttals from six different dictionaries, only for you to completely ignore it.

Quote:
I am convinced you can not be a Christian and not be convicted of sin.

I take it you never studied marketing? I did. "Hey join my religion! You'll be convicted of sin...whether you join or not!"

Quote:
I mean i bet even Mother Teresa was convicted of sin.

The same Mother Teresa who was just recently canonized as a saint by the Roman Catholic Church, the one venerated worldwide for her work with the poor?
If even someone praised as much as she is (ignoring for now criticisms from Hitchens et al) can be convicted of sin, then your belief system is just...well...hateful. It apparently hates everybody.

Quote:
The Faith of Christ is meant to bring people out of their sin, into faith, and close to God.

Then this Faith of Christ fails completely, as you indicate that yourself, your family, and everyone, Christians and non-Christian alike, are sinners, still are sinners.
If this 'Faith of Christ' is a cure for this 'sin' illness, then it's a completely ineffectual cure. The FDA recently banned antibacterial handwashes because they are ineffectual at their stated goal.

Quote:
I am convinced you can not live faithfully while living sinfully, this leads people to repentance. Faith is the righteousness of God. What is scary is to fall into a place where you don't even care.

Who says I don't care? Are you implying that my saying yes to (some of) your questions up above means I don't care?
I would care if the things you say are immoral showed actual harms. So if a man watches pornography and masturbates, where's the harm?
I don't care precisely because there is nothing to care about!

Quote:
Listen man, if you are actually going to compromise yourself to where you actually justify the morality of prostitutes, and pornography, and scat porn, and perversion, i have nothing more to debate about.

Is this how you convince people that what you say is immoral, actually is immoral? You simply declare it to be, and when they disagree and give their reasons and opinions, you say "I have nothing more to debate about"? You give up?
Is this because you realize deep down, your reasons for declaring it to be immoral don't hold merit?
It's your absolutist "my way or the highway" mentality that I find most immoral about yourself.

Quote:
That stuff is disgusting,

Scat porn is, I agree about that, but the rest in my view isn't. Are you going to try and give me reasons as to why I should view them as disgusting, or are you going to continue with your 'nothing to debate about' stance?

Quote:
it is immoral

I disagree. Simply declaring something immoral isn't the same thing as convincing me it is.

Quote:
it is perverted,

Nope, not in my eyes.

Quote:
At this point i should just pray for you,

Why? Are you actually going to ask God to intervene, to interfere with my free will? Remember your arguments about free will earlier?
Sorry...but the thought of you asking an all powerful entity to violate my free will to do what I want with my body...I find that grossly immoral.
Oh wait. Sorry. Forgot. There's nothing to debate about.

Quote:
because that stuff is objectively immoral,

How soon one forgets the point I raised earlier.
Quote:
What you're going to say next, what you say constitutes pure sex, and what constitutes impure sex, is your completely subjective opinion, and the completely subjective opinion of your religion, just with a god label stamped on to it to try and give it the authority to meddle in people's lives.

To put it simply, I do not accept your claim that it is "objectively immoral".

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 44: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:03 pm
Reply
Re: You're a Thief!

Like this post
[Replying to post 40 by Willum]

Quote:
Bad, generates hatred,

Like calling people psychopaths for not believing in sin.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 45: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:09 pm
Reply
Re: You're a Thief!

Like this post
[Replying to MadeNew]

Can I show you history?
Sure, look at history.

Worshipers of Judeo-Christianity, do these things.

Oh, you are going to tell me this is not what the Bible teaches!
To which I reply, it gets in somehow.
Somehow followers of the Abrahamic-god have murdered entire nations in the name of God. Somehow they are still doing it today, somehow God approves.

I can read the Bible as well as anyone: But I can't understand why those teachings, or belief that Christians, Jews, Palestinians, Native Americans, Poles, Letts, and countless others are OK for Jews and Christians to exterminate and cross-exterminate.

All I can do is observe it is true.
Perhaps you can tell me?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 46: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:37 pm
Reply

Like this post
MadeNew wrote:

[Replying to post 14 by Divine Insight]

First of all, you hate God, thats pretty clear, and thats something in that list. I don't buy that you are sinless DI, not for a second. ...You want me to take your word for it? lol... Maybe in your eyes, which is the problem,....
Not believing in sin is the very root of the definition of a psychopath.


Warning Moderator Warning


This is a debating site, not a preaching site. Needlessly personal comments. If you think another member has been inflammatory or ranting (the opposite of preaching, in some ways) feel free to report them, but don't get personal on the boards.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 47: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:57 pm
Reply

Like this post
Fine, my debates are not valid in this forum. good bye, just a waste of time and a headache to be picked on by moderators when people aren't even cvotributing anything to the debate like post 41, and i get called out for debating that you want to call preaching. this is distrusting.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 48: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:52 pm
Reply
Re: You're a Thief!

Like this post
MadeNew wrote:

Divine Insight wrote:

MadeNew wrote:

That word they took "debate" from is the greek word "eridos", which is literally translated as "strife"

Strife:angry or bitter disagreement over fundamental issues; conflict.

FYI


Why is it that when it works in favor of Christian theology a literal interpretation of scriptures is pointed to. But the moment a literal interpretation of the scriptures works against Christian theology a claim is made that the Bible shouldn't be taken literally and a non-literal excuse is given instead.

Looks like a game of musical chairs to me.



DI i suggest you go study the philosophy of "hermeneutics"
No one thinks that the entire scripture should be taken literally except nonbelievers who attempt to criticize it on those grounds.

"I am the LIGHT"~Jesus Christ...


How do you propose to interpret the word in question? "eridos" or "strife" of "debate"?


You are the one who just gave an argument that the term "debate" should be literally taken to mean "strife".

So not only are your arguing for a literal interpretation, but you are also suggesting that the original transcribers of the Bible were poor translators.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Jump to:  
Facebook
Tweet

 




On The Web | Ecodia | Hymn Lyrics Apps
Facebook | Twitter

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.   Produced by Ecodia.

Igloo   |  Lo-Fi Version