Did Jesus exist? (Replaces earlier poll)

[Zzyzx]

.
Did Jesus live 2000 years ago, preach for a few years, and get executed?

This is NOT asking if you accept that he performed miracles or was supernatural – only that he existed, preached, was executed.

All are encouraged to explain why they do or do not accept



This thread / poll replaces an earlier one that was poorly worded.

Apologies to those who contributed to the previous thread (which is now in the Trash Can)

[1213]

[Replying to post 84 by 1213]

No, no, no.
The Sadducee were what became the Jewish.
Evidence? Look it up!
And to repeat: The verbal history of Judaism is it professes to be older than dirt, the truth is, Jerusalem's religion isn't anything like the stories.
...

Interesting claim. But ok, what I meant with Jews is the Israel, offspring of Jacob. They and their teachings are older than Rome. And I don’t think it is religion, it is faith to the God of Abraham.

[Willum]

[Replying to 1213]

Excellent!
Now all you have to do is show some proof of Abraham or Jacob. Then show their teachings are older than Rome.

Actually, you don't, because the forum is about Jesus, and we have already demonstrated he could not exist.

Even so, you will not be able to do it, because it is simply untrue. The claims in the OT have been shown to be anecdotal at best, wrong, at worst.

But good luck, I'll be interested in what you have to say, and their origins.
Remember and oral tradition isn't worth the paper it's written on.

[1213]

But good luck, I'll be interested in what you have to say, and their origins.
Remember and oral tradition isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Ok, so basically all history is worthless and we can reject it and move to another topics.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 91 by 1213]

No, no, no, you mis-understand. I have looked for history, and found bupkis.

I have found many an expression that begins, "Most Biblical scholars think..." such and such [if it did happen] must have happen at this time, but there is no reason to believe Biblical scholars, so, with my own research turning up zilch, I avidly desire you to point out where the events you believe happened are indicated.

Hinted at.

Anything...

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 88 by Willum]

Liam - So, in the very post you are complaining about, I posted the beliefs of the Sadducee, that is evidence that the Sadducee didn't believe anything like the Pharisee or Christians. At least by way their being other religions with more similar beliefs.

So, I posted the proof - and you ignored it, sans review. That's why it is better if you do look it up, because you won't believe anything I say or post - as you have just demonstrated.

We obviously have different ideas of what an historical "demonstration" looks like. You seem to think that a demonstration means an explanation. But surely you will see that cannot be: if I simply state that an alien abducted the body of a very ordinary Jewish teacher, and brainwashed his disciples, is that evidence, or is that a theory?


Demonstrations of the theory you are making typically provide (at least once in a while) a quote from an ancient source.


Can you engage a primary a source?


(edit)

Ah, I see, you have presented a passage from Josephus which was supposed to demonstrate how the Sadducean branch of Judaism became Judaism, even though it is the consensus that it was the Pharisees that preserved Judaism after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD?

I must say, your "evidence" is quite dizzying. I follow just a few of your threads and by the end I am not sure what it is you are trying to argue.


Can we return to the OP question. Are you claiming a vast, breathtaking religious conspiracy? That is, are you saying that someone completely made up the Jesus, his family, his disciples, the person Paul, everything, no less than Tolkien made up the characters of his trilogy? James the brother of Jesus is no more historical than Gandalf etc.?

[Willum]

[Replying to liamconnor]

Sure, I will go through and quote sources. Like you couldn't look them up with a quick google.

But since I already have, I'd like to know which ones you feel are in arrears.
Or do you proof about Abraham and Jacob?

THAT is clearly your burden of proof.

So sure, any position I have you don't understand the proof, I'll get you.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

The poll doesn't have my agnostic position.. "I don't know" isn't there.

the only evidence I have that Jesus existed is the Bible... and that's a bit... biased, in my opinion.

[For_The_Kingdom]

the only evidence I have that Jesus existed is the Bible... and that's a bit... biased, in my opinion.

The only evidence we have that King Tut existed came from a place none of than Egypt...and that's a bit...biased, in my opinion.

[benchwarmer]

the only evidence I have that Jesus existed is the Bible... and that's a bit... biased, in my opinion.

The only evidence we have that King Tut existed came from a place none of than Egypt...and that's a bit...biased, in my opinion.

You mean like the actual body?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun%27s_mummy

How is finding a body biased?

Your evidence for Jesus: some documents

King Tut's evidence: his body and tomb

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 96 by For_The_Kingdom]

the only evidence I have that Jesus existed is the Bible... and that's a bit... biased, in my opinion.

The only evidence we have that King Tut existed came from a place none of than Egypt...and that's a bit...biased, in my opinion.

And Im not too sure that people base their lives on good ol' King Tut... but we DO have physical evidence of Tut, not just stories. Bit of a difference, that.