Rational and civil debate between members of all religions and world views

Goto page 1, 2  Next

Reply to topic
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:27 pm
Reply
Consciousness

Like this post
Consciousness has been studied for many years, one of the most recent discoveries or perceptions I have heard is that we are more often on auto-pilot, living unconsciously.

I am intrigued by this, some Christians believe that, as the only species that is conscious of things, we are divinely created. But if the truth is that we are more often on auto-pilot and that is the normal state of being (example, I drive to the same places every day and don't remember thinking about driving I just do it and don't even remember what's going on, but if a car jets out in my path, I instantly (without thinking) react.

Religion is something that appears to me to put some people on "auto-pilot." Such as when a religious person is not seeking answers or defending their position. It seems to me that only when they are challenged in their faith, and the usual responses are not working, that they come off of auto-pilot and into consciousness. Most religious people, in my view, appear to not want to debate their position, but are happy in their settled view, in other words, they live on auto-pilot.

Question for debate:

Isn't consciousness more likely NOT divine?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:23 pm
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post (1): William
[Replying to post 1 by suckka]

Quote:
Isn't consciousness more likely NOT divine?

If it isn't divine where does it come from? When we are living on auto-pilot we are still using our consciousness; it is just at a deeper level that we don't need to need to monitor all the time.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:07 pm
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post (1): McCulloch
puddleglum wrote:

[Replying to post 1 by suckka]

Quote:
Isn't consciousness more likely NOT divine?

If it isn't divine where does it come from? When we are living on auto-pilot we are still using our consciousness; it is just at a deeper level that we don't need to need to monitor all the time.


I think that auto-pilot is more a form of unconsciousness or subconsciousness. But answer this, if African Grey Parrot studies prove strong conscious behavior (even if it does not rise to the level of humans, which may or may never be possible to prove but may exist; or may be proven to some degree in one species and other degrees in others, such as when Elephants mourn their dead or when dolphins protect surfers from sharks.) Isn't it impossible to say consciousness is exclusive to humans?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:25 pm
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post
[Replying to post 3 by suckka]

Quote:
Isn't it impossible to say consciousness is exclusive to humans?

It seems clear to me that consciousness is not exclusive to humans. Most forms of animal life exhibit consciousness, although not on a human level.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:23 pm
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post
BwhoUR wrote:

Consciousness has been studied for many years, one of the most recent discoveries or perceptions I have heard is that we are more often on auto-pilot, living unconsciously.

I am intrigued by this, some Christians believe that, as the only species that is conscious of things, we are divinely created. But if the truth is that we are more often on auto-pilot and that is the normal state of being (example, I drive to the same places every day and don't remember thinking about driving I just do it and don't even remember what's going on, but if a car jets out in my path, I instantly (without thinking) react.

Religion is something that appears to me to put some people on "auto-pilot." Such as when a religious person is not seeking answers or defending their position. It seems to me that only when they are challenged in their faith, and the usual responses are not working, that they come off of auto-pilot and into consciousness. Most religious people, in my view, appear to not want to debate their position, but are happy in their settled view, in other words, they live on auto-pilot.

Question for debate:

Isn't consciousness more likely NOT divine?

While you mentioned an example of being on "auto-pilot", but in other ways, religionists tend to not be in that mode. Some religionists tend to introspect, meditate, and focus on their nature, and I think this alone would cause someone to be more aware of themselves and live more purposeful lives.

Either way, I don't believe that consciousness proves God but I do believe it puts a dent into materialism. No scientist has solved the mind/body problem. Many Atheists tend to equate the mind with brain without having any empirically verified explanation/mechanism for how the brain produces the mind. At best, we can show correlations and translate/decipher that into images (pictures, waveforms, colors) which we can view on a monitor. But how does that explain the computer monitors (fig.) that we have in our brain? In other words, how does brain tissue and electrical signals create the monitor in our heads?

If the mind or consciousness can be shown not to be totally dependent on the brain, then does that degree of independence (or non-dependence) constitute a separate existence or something which can survive without the body?!

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:20 am
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post
[Replying to post 1 by BwhoUR]

Our consciousness is limited and has been endowed mercifully by the Indefinite or Absolute or All-Conscious :

[2:256] Allah* — there is no God but He, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that will intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them; and they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He pleases. His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth; and the care of them burdens Him not; and He is the High, the Great.

https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2&verse=255
*One-True-God

The One-True-God , All and Ever-Living whom slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep, is All-Conscious. We sleep without sleep we could become mad, while being awake we are sometimes or most in a state of slumber. Right, please?
Regards

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:33 am
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post
OpenYourEyes wrote:
If the mind or consciousness can be shown not to be totally dependent on the brain, then does that degree of independence (or non-dependence) constitute a separate existence or something which can survive without the body?!


That is a rather large if. Admittedly, we don't entirely know how human brain works, or for that matter earthworm brain, but there is as yet no indication that mind is anything other than a product of brain. We do know, for example, about many physical things: disease, injury and drugs ; which affect mind by changing brain.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:35 pm
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post
[Replying to post 1 by BwhoUR]

Now, you write:
Consciousness, does it prove or disprove God?

I'd say that as the Bible states that "God is spirit" and consciousness lies fairly close to spirit as the spirit in people and by the reference to "God's temple" as people's bodies, it seems that the word of the Bible gets confirmed if consciousness is proven (to be independent of the body, i.e., that souls exist, that Dualism is true! Smile

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:08 pm
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post
[Replying to post 8 by Aetixintro]

There's that IF again (as McCulloch previously stated). Soooo, WHY is there an IF? It would seem that it would be fairly easy to prove with verifiable evidence and testing by now (2017) whether there is consciousness outside the brain.

For consciousness to exist outside the living brain, there would have to be a need for it. That need would be known to all of us and therefore, we would know how to test for it.

What is the need for consciousness outside the living brain?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:55 pm
Reply
Re: Consciousness

Like this post
[Replying to post 9 by BwhoUR]

Maybe the "need" looks like this:

If the soul exists then God/Heaven exists
the soul exists
God/Heaven exists

So the need for the soul is there for us to go to Heaven, maybe!

Otherwise, I obviously have no (godly) account of why (total) nature is this way or that way, despite being a Christian/Scientologist myself.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   

Goto page 1, 2  Next

Jump to:  
Facebook
Tweet

 




On The Web | Ecodia | Hymn Lyrics Apps
Facebook | Twitter

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.   Produced by Ecodia.

Igloo   |  Lo-Fi Version