Carrier, Jobs, and automation!

Two hot topics for the price of one

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DanieltheDragon
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Carrier, Jobs, and automation!

Post #1

Post by DanieltheDragon »

One thing that is simply not being talked about is automation while traditionally has created more jobs by freeing up capital spent on mundane tasks will continue to move up taking jobs on the economic ladder. A complaint often heralded by protectionists and those against free trade is we don't manufacture things anymore. There is a reason for that. The outsourcing of jobs to countries that have lower wages than here at home allow companies to be competitive and offer their products at lower prices. Americans won't work at these wages either. United technologies CEO spelled this out in an interview with Jim Kramer. Mexican Jobs cost 80% less in wages and the turnover rate is far lower. At the Indiana manufacturing plant they pay workers more money than the Mexican counter parts and they experience higher turnover.

Trump convinced Carrier to keep these jobs via huge tax incentives in the millions.

United Technologies CEO spelled out the end fate of the carrier plant.
GREG HAYES: Right. Well, and again, if you think about what we talked about last week, we're going to make a $16 million investment in that factory in Indianapolis to automate to drive the cost down so that we can continue to be competitive. Now is it as cheap as moving to Mexico with lower cost of labor? No. But we will make that plant competitive just because we'll make the capital investments there.

JIM CRAMER: Right.

GREG HAYES: But what that ultimately means is there will be fewer jobs.
The savings from the tax incentives will ultimately be reinvested into automating the plant. Yes carrier will still have some jobs at the Indiana plant and they will likely be high wage jobs to boot. But people won't be building things the plant will be automated.

The cost of automation is and will be cheaper than hiring people training people and paying them wage that will incentivize them to work productively.


My question for debate is how do you see world economies coping with increased automation?

Those manufacturing jobs in China, India, Mexico will eventually face the same fate as American manufacturing when automation becomes cheaper than the rock bottom wages they pay out.
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Willum
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Post #11

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 10 by DanieltheDragon]

I see it as there being surplus of everything we (as humans) need. We have plenty of labor (including automation), plenty of food, an over-abundance of products. With plenty of labor, this implies plenty of housing.

How does one manage this?

The problems of the 20th century of managing limited resources are as dead as that century. We have been caught flatfooted with the challenge of managing opulence.

Money is rapidly becoming an outdated notion. Currently money is a tool that PREVENTS people from doing things, rather than enabling them.

(Think of that, money is a tool that no longer does its job, a dog that don't hunt! Stupid people who think it remains valuable, those people still in charge, still try to make money valuable by sacrificing so much to do it.)

Put another way, what goods would you like to have cheaper? Ferrari? No, of course not, but what is there that isn't so cheap you can not afford it - ? Except for those products artificially inflated by perception and artificial markets?

It is a serious problem, and the response from our leadership so far has only been to use taxes and the environment to artificially limit peoples resources.

A sad and pathetic interim solution presented by those still living in the past.
For consideration.
V/R

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William
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Systems of Disparity

Post #12

Post by William »

I see the problem is that we still are beholding to ancient systems of disparity. No matter what name they are wrapped in (socialism,communism, capitalism etc) - and things can only get progressively worse for the majority under such systems.

We need to be embracing the future rather than the habits handed down from the past. Consumerism does not care for the future.

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Neatras
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Post #13

Post by Neatras »

[Replying to post 12 by William]

I have to agree.

I'm not in any way living in a way that actively opposes consumerism, but I recognize that my expenditures are much lower than the average American. I can actually sustain relatively high happiness with minimal maintenance in my daily life; a contributor to that is the internet, which allows me the ability to experience a multitude of unique things without having to make dangerous or expensive purchases. If an entire generation of people were to grow up deciding that they are "happy" with the basic amenities and a very cheap form of leisure, it would make a powerful message toward what it means to have to 'work.' Working in itself is meant to solve a deficiency of resources, but when people are capable of living with almost no deficiency, it demonstrates the inanity of demanding work for lesser and lesser rewards. This would help to highlight the fact that wages haven't gone up in decades despite productivity increasing, and inflation reducing the value of currency in first world countries. Work should only be done to solve a deficiency in resources, it shouldn't become a dogmatic process that dictates who breathes and who suffers.

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Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 13 by Neatras]

Few of us can completely seperate ourselves from the modern day commercial sytem, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I simpy try to live modestly, and not make make obtaining wealth or money the center or most important thing in life.

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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