Does "Gut Feeling" count for something?

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2Dbunk
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Does "Gut Feeling" count for something?

Post #1

Post by 2Dbunk »

Mark Twain once said: "Faith is believing something you know ain't true." -from his book Following the Equator, 1897. As a self-claimed anti-intellectual, is this quote of his a gut feeling? Feel free to extrapolate any thoughts you might have on what he said.
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?

One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley

Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.

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Post #2

Post by OnceConvinced »

Gut feelings are often completely wrong. I would not rely on them, especially not other people's anyway.

My ex-girlfriend believed she knew when someone was cheating on her. She knew this because she had been in two previous relationships where she had this "gut feeling" that the guy was cheating on her. In both occasions it proved to be correct. They had been cheating.

Then one day she tells me that she has this same gut feeling about me. That I was cheating on her and that her gut feeling was always right. She was adamant I was cheating on her, even though I was completely innocent of such a charge. It caused us all sorts of trust issues which never got resolved. In the end I got fed up with her lack of trust and even flat out told her that her gut feelings were a crock.

It showed me big time that gut feelings are not reliable. That humans do not have special powers to be able to tell whether something is true or not. That is pure fantasy.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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Post #3

Post by 2Dbunk »

[Replying to post 2 by OnceConvinced]

Here are two more examples of humans having vastly different outlooks on philosophy:

Leroy Jethro Gibbs, the intrepid team leader of multi, multi season NCIS is known for his “gut feeling� in staring down bad guys.

Donald Trump employs “gut feeling� in getting what he wants.

Samuel Clemens was a non-theist; Gibbs is ambivalent on religion; and Trump is a professed Christian. If one views Mark Twain’s quote as his “gut feeling� then the phrase makes some sense. Otherwise it is either instinctual or non-sensible -- and to call Twain or Clemens non-sensible puts him plainly out of character.

Gibbs on the other hand IS a character dreamed up by Belisarious . . . an image perhaps as he would like to see himself being an ideal.

Trump is a victim/hero of his own imagination . . . a victim castigated by his own inconsistencies but a hero to those who are in a state of flux.

Ideally, "gut feeling" is the summation of ALL of one's experience along the lines of the subject study or problem. Most seem to come down on the side of religion (subject study here) while a few see that path unconstructive. So in the end days, Jesus and/or "God" will judge us because of our "gut feeling." If OC is correct, then this future judgment is rather arbitrary, therefore flawed.
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?

One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley

Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.

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Post #4

Post by 2Dbunk »

Maybe I should put it this way: 1. Some men feel that women should be treated with respect (equally), some men don't. 2. Some people feel that certain races are inferior to theirs, some people don't. 3. Some people are very religious, some people aren't.

Are these three statements the result of "gut feeling" or are they mentally derived? I think maybe another routing might be considered: heritage. Maybe one's heritage might be a driving factor in contributing to a "gut feeling" rather than mental derivation?
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?

One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley

Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.

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Post #5

Post by William »

[Replying to post 2 by OnceConvinced]

2 out of 3 ain't bad, but far more study into the subject has to be had before anyone can make the call either way.

Intuition is a learned thing. Sometimes one gets it wrong, but the more you use it in conjunction with other things such as critical and crucial thinking, the better if performs.

Just as likely there were other 'signs' which your ex picked up on subconsciously and this added to her anxiety.

Anyone is better off staying single and out of harms way if they cannot trust themselves, because it is like love - don't expect it from anyone else if you can't give it to yourself.

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Post #6

Post by OnceConvinced »

William wrote: [Replying to post 2 by OnceConvinced]

2 out of 3 ain't bad,
Not if you are impossible to live with and always find yourself in unhappy relationship. Then the chances are high that you may find yourself being cheated on. I would expect that a woman like her would be cheated on.

Confirmation bias must also be taken into consideration. It's very easy to forget those times you were wrong. The times you were right you remember those! Somebody cheated on you and you were right about it! You are sure going to remember that! However when you are embarrassingly wrong about something (as my ex was about me), you quickly forget about how wrong your gut feeling was that time. Or more likely in her case she is probably still convinced her gut feeling was right and will continue to have those gut feelings every time she is in a relationship. She even told me that she didn't think her new boyfriend was very honest with her.

I can see that gut feeling coming again!
William wrote: but far more study into the subject has to be had before anyone can make the call either way.
Agreed. I actually went out quite a bit. Had 3 poker games a week (some during the day in the weekends) and Quiz night on Thurs. She never wanted to come to any of those, but was very paranoid that I might be meeting women there and having affairs. I actually gave her a list of the times and addresses of these venues so that she could check up on me. Or have others check up on me. Thus she could see that all I was doing was playing poker and during the breaks hanging out with my best male friend who also played poker. If she'd come the odd time and met people there she would soon find out there was nothing to worry about. Most women there came with their male partners!

It still didn't help with her paranoia.

That leads me to believe that gut feelings can be more about paranoia than anything else.
William wrote:
Intuition is a learned thing. Sometimes one gets it wrong, but the more you use it in conjunction with other things such as critical and crucial thinking, the better if performs.
One has to be careful not to employ confirmation bias here. People are more likely to remember the times when there gut feelings were right than when they were wrong. I see it all the time at the poker table. People who have their favourite hands because they believe they win a lot more with that hand than any other hand. The fact is they don't. The fact is they are just more likely to remember the times they won than the times they didn't, because they really want to believe they have a lucky hand. That somehow they have some supernatural force that controls the cards when they get that particular hand.

And of course when you play your favourite hand all the time... instead of folding it, then chances are you're gonna get lucky some times and get a massive pots. Especially if your favourite hand is something weak like my best mate who's favourite hand is 9, 7. When he wins with it he usually wins big because nobody expects him to be playing with such a weak hand.
William wrote: Just as likely there were other 'signs' which your ex picked up on subconsciously and this added to her anxiety.
I don't see what signs there would have been because I never cheated on her. Not once. Didn't even consider it, even though we were in a miserable relationship. All I could see was paranoia. Many of her anxieties were completely irrational. Some people teach themselves to be paranoid about certain things. That and confirmation bias leads people to believe that their gut feelings are reliable.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Post #7

Post by William »

[Replying to post 6 by OnceConvinced]

Are you suggesting that intuition is a product of mental illness?

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Post #8

Post by OnceConvinced »

William wrote: [Replying to post 6 by OnceConvinced]

Are you suggesting that intuition is a product of mental illness?
No, I'm not. Things like confirmation bias aren't mental illnesses. It is natural human behaviour. I don't even believe that paranoia is necessarily mental illness either. It can just be a result of a person being overly negative or always fearing the worst. Even that can be natural for some. You've surely heard the saying "once bitten, twice shy". Some people don't handle bites very well and become very fearful of being bitten again. It may lead them to fear the worst every time.

Instinct often comes from negative experiences. If you learn to fear something it becomes a natural thing to continue to fear it. Instinct can be a very healthy thing, but it can also have very negative effects. For instance, a pet who has been treated badly by its owners will fear all humans, even those who want to help it. It's instinct is that all humans are bad and want to hurt it. Their "gut feeling" will be one of distrust, even to a human bearing food.

Likewise a human who has been cheated on once or twice by a partner will start to treat all future partners as potential cheaters. Their gut feeling will be that their partner can't be trusted, even when they can.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Post #9

Post by William »

[Replying to post 8 by OnceConvinced]

Honing intuition skills is a good thing. The way I see things is that I trust myself. Not others. I don't put the onus onto others.

From what you say about your ex, I think you should be happy things went the way they did.

I understand what it is like to be involved with dysfunction and damaged individuals...there is no point in trying to change others. All that is required is changing the self.

As far as Does "Gut Feeling" count for something? For me it does, but not just that alone - as explained in an earlier post. It isn't superstition.

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Re: Does "Gut Feeling" count for something?

Post #10

Post by amortalman »

[Replying to 2Dbunk]

Maybe I'm getting in over my head with semantics here, but according to the definition of "gut feeling," I don't think Mark Twain was having one here, which, according to Dictionary.com is: instinctive feeling, intuition; also called gut reaction.

Being the highly talented writer that M. T. was I think he simply had another of many flashes of creative prose. For this clever saying to ring true it has to strike a chord with many of his readers, which it does. He was playing on people's natural suspicion of beliefs without empirical evidence.

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