Created immortal (indestructable)?

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JehovahsWitness
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Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

- do you believe Satan is immortal?
- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

Why?


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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Re: Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #2

Post by Divine Insight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: - do you believe Satan is immortal?
It is my understanding that Satan character in the Bible has his head crushed in the prophesies of Revelation and supposedly dies at that point.

If that's the case then he won't be immortal at that point.
JehovahsWitness wrote: - do you believe the wicked are immortal?
Doesn't the Bible teach that the wages of sin is death? If that's the case then how could the wicked be immortal?
JehovahsWitness wrote: - do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?
I was always taught that God is omnipotent and that for God all things are possible.

Also, didn't he turn Lott's wife into a pillar of salt? It would seem to me to be reasonable to believe that a creator could destroy what he creates.
JehovahsWitness wrote: - do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?
I see nothing in Biblical theology that would suggest that there is anything this God cannot do. Other than what is indirectly implied by the way he deals with his problems. I does appear that he could have done far better. But we typically don't assign that to God being inept in power. We just assume that he chose to do things that way for reasons that simply don't make sense to us.
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
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Re: Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #3

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

They were created mortal but resurected immortal.

Daniel 12:1-3New International Version (NIV)

The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

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Re: Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #4

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]




[center]Fiction vs. reality[/center]

JehovahsWitness wrote:
To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

- do you believe Satan is immortal?
I think that it depends on how we interpret the Bible stories.
There are many interpretations possible.

As an agnostic and a skeptic to all of this Bible stuff, I don't care.
To me, this kind of theological question has all the intellectual weight of counting the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

To me the question is not only boring, but completely IRRELEVANT to reality, and the REAL problems the world is facing today.

Is Satan immortal?

Are any of these supernatural characters in the Bible REAL?
Some people like Star Wars, others like the Bible.

You might as well be asking me if Chewbaca's fur is silky or scratchy.
Yeah, I get it that you are a fan and all, but Chewbaca is NOT real, my friend.

Neither is "Satan".
These are just story book characters.

BUT BACK TO REAL LIFE ISSUES:

One of the functions that religions like to take over is birth and death.

So, they have invented many comforting stories to tell the bereaved ... one of them is that their loved ones aren't REALLY REALLY dead after all... they live on....

In fact, maybe, just maybe they live on FOREVER.... and you can too... just do what I do.... for $9.99 I'll sell you this here book.


Fiction.



:)

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Re: Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #5

Post by Checkpoint »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?
There is no scriptural basis for saying that.

What there is, is assumption or surmise.

Those who claim this ignore what scripture plainly tells us.

Genesis 3:

22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—�
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.
- do you believe Satan is immortal?
- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?
Not at all.
Why?
Nothing is impossible with God.


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"

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Post #6

Post by bjs »

Postroad seems to be accurate from a biblical perspective. I like the way Paul put in First Corinthians 15.

“Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed – in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.�
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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Post #7

Post by postroad »

bjs wrote: Postroad seems to be accurate from a biblical perspective. I like the way Paul put in First Corinthians 15.

“Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed – in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.�
Well that's one vote for the agnostic.

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Re: Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #8

Post by Claire Evans »

JehovahsWitness wrote: To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?
There isn't any. Genesis 3:3 says:

"...but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"

Obviously that means Adam and Eve were mortal. I don't know how you go from being immortal to mortal.
JehovahsWitness wrote:- do you believe Satan is immortal?
Yes. Revelation 20:10 supports that:

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
JehovahsWitness wrote:- do you believe the wicked are immortal?
The false prophet had the same fate. Therefore other wicked people must be tormented forever.

JehovahsWitness wrote:- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?
God can take away what sustains the devil and that is the feeding on the suffering of people. Suffering keeps him alive. Deprive him of that, you land up with a devil with no power and one tormented.

“’When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, “I will return to my house from which I came.� ‘And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.’� (Luke 11:24-26)

This indicates that hell is the last place demons want to be. They have to feed off others and in hell there is nothing to feed off. That is why demons protest wildly during exorcisms. They don't want to let go of their host.

JehovahsWitness wrote:- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

Why?


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"
If God had the ability to destroy Satan by putting an end to his existence, then why not do that now? So my answer is no.

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Re: Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Claire Evans wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:- do you believe Satan is immortal?
Yes. Revelation 20:10 supports that:

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
So you believe Satan is immortal. Was he created immortal or do you believe Satan was at some point given immortality?
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Created immortal (indestructable)?

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Claire Evans wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:- do you believe the wicked are immortal?
...wicked people must be tormented forever.
So do you believe these people are immortal (indestructable)?
Claire Evans wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?
God can take away what sustains the devil and that is the feeding on the suffering of people. Suffering keeps him alive. Deprive him of that, you land up with a devil with no power and one tormented.
Thank you, but I still can't quite glean from your answer, was that a "Yes" or a "No"?
Claire Evans wrote:If God had the ability to destroy Satan by putting an end to his existence, then why not do that now? So my answer is no.
Was that a "No" I don't believe God is powerful enough to put an end to Satan's existence?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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