Heavenly body

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Youkilledkenny
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Heavenly body

Post #1

Post by Youkilledkenny »

Assuming heaven is real and people go to it based on your own individual belief:

What goes to heaven?
Is it your body, your mind or your spirit?
What does this look like?
Do you go as you are when you die, or where you were at your prime* (if your prime isn't when you die)?

Once you get to your heaven in the means in which you believe, do you change or stay the same as when you get there?

Cite biblical references for your POV for comparison if you have it.


*Prime here meaning when you were at you best and strongest mentally, physically and spiritually.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Heavenly body

Post #11

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 9 by JehovahsWitness]

Interesting, but his body received no second burial...
Do all bodies recieve a burial?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Heavenly body

Post #12

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

No, I suppose some are left to the wild animals.
Not a pretty image, certainly not a fate I'd want inflicted on Jesus, man of Rome, man of peace.

Are you suggesting that when his spirit left him, again, something morbid happened to his body?
Perhaps it is buried with Lazarus?

So what happened to Jesus' real body?
Or was it just forgotten about when the Bible was written? I'd forgotten, until you brought it up.
This is a test: Had this been an actual revolution, the virus would have been much stronger.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

Who would be proud these tactics?

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Heavenly body

Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Do all bodies recieve a burial?
Willum wrote:No...
Okay then.
Willum wrote:So what happened to Jesus' real body?
If you are refering to his body after his resurrection, who knows? I certainly don't.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

postroad
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Re: Heavenly body

Post #14

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 9 by JehovahsWitness]
Why do you insist that a spiritual body can not manifest itself to be visible to the human eye

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ttruscott
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Re: Heavenly body

Post #15

Post by ttruscott »

Youkilledkenny wrote: Married to God.....where does that concept come from.
From scripture:
Revelation 19:7 Let us rejoice and celebrate and give Him the glory. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready.

Revelation 19:9 Then the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!" And he added, "These are the true words of God."

Maybe God's not my type? Seriously though, this seems to indicate something 'more' than simple communion. Please explain "married to God", what it means and what we can expect from it.
Explained already in the first post in which I mention the concept. There are some really good commentaries on the Bible out there too.
our spirit, is resurrected to its original nature.
Why isn't it in the original form to begin with?
Explained already - their nature changed when they made a free will decision to go against GOD and become sinners before HIM.
Why would anyone/anything want to move away from the 'original nature' as described that has any functioning mental capacity.
They did not want what YHWH offered but wanted to go their own way so they did not acknowledge that HIS warnings that their natures would change to become evil were true but considered HIM to be a false god and a liar or, in the case of the elect ones, that HE was making a mistake calling for the judgement day .
In other words, if it was so great to begin with, whey would anyone/thing move from that if this 'nature' was properly represented?
The nature being considered was their character as moral. Once someone declared HIMself to be our creator GOD, it could not be ignored especially in a telepathic society. People gradually came to their decision about these claims as they talked it over and thought about where their best chance at happiness lay.
the angels, will have the ability to manifest any body we desire
Please explain
Mark 12:25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Like the angels refers to more than no marriage because we will all be married to GOD and each other in that heavenly state. Angels manifest themselves as different bodies - and so will we when we are like them and not human anymore.
You only get there by being perfect
So we're all 'up a creek without a paddle' because no one is perfect.
1 Corinthians 13:10...but when perfection comes, what is in part disappears. tells us perfection is coming for HIS legitimate children who are trained in righteousness: Heb 12:5-11, a discipline that perfects us. So it is easy to see all humans arrive here imperfect but the few sinful elect, the people of the kingdom, the sheep gone astray who have returned, aka HIS legitimate children, will be perfected until they are heaven ready.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Heavenly body

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Replying to post 14 by postroad

I believe spirits are invisible because

- the bible classifies bodies as either physical or spiritual
- scripture says "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom (of heaven). I take "flesh and blood" to be a euphemism for "physical bodies"
- in order to be seen by a human, one needs a physical body, thus spirit bodies are unseen to humans.
- heaven is thus inhabited by such individuals with non-physical ("flesh & blood") bodies
- God is a spirit and thus has one such body
- humans cannot see God
- God has created many millions of other spirits called in the bible "sons of God" or angels
- Eve spoke with one such being in the garden of Eden but is not reported to have seen him

I conclude therefore that spirits are unseen, non-physical (intelligent) beings.
postroad wrote:Why do you insist that a spiritual body can not manifest itself to be visible to the human eye
I did nothing of the kind. Indeed I believe that spirits can materialize or "manifest themselves to be visible" as you put it. Spirits (also called in the bible "angels") have done so on several occasions. I was speaking about what I believe is their natural state of being rather than what they can or cannot do. A spirit that has manifested itself in a visible way to a human, is altering itself to be seen in the physical world. Apparently they can do this.


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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Heavenly body

Post #17

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]
You had indicated that the body seen by the Disciples as Jesus ascended from sight was a physical body which must have changed into a spiritual body at some point along the way if he entered heaven as a spiritual being. The text from the book of Hebrews
indicates that Jesus was not an angel but was as far above them as the name he inherited was above theirs. If he isn't an angel and he isn't human, what is he ?

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Re: Heavenly body

Post #18

Post by JehovahsWitness »

postroad wrote:The text from the book of Hebrews
indicates that Jesus was not an angel but was as far above them as the name he inherited was above theirs. If he isn't an angel and he isn't human, what is he ?
My own personal belief is that angels are spirits with messages; ie an angel is describing the job or class of a particular group of spirits.
To illustrate: humans can be catagorized as "male" or "female". So what is a teacher? Would someone described as a teacher mean they don't fit into either group? No, the title "teacher" (or mother, father, nurse, construction worker etc) are additional lables that are to do with the position or duties of a "male" or a "female".
In a similar way, the bible I believe, identifies two types of intelligent beings those that are "physical" (have physical bodies) and those that are "spiritual" (have spiritual bodies). Everyone (even God himself) fits into one of these to "catagories". The resurrected Jesus is a spirit but one that is far superior to any of the angels (refering to the group of spirits created after him (Jesus) that serve under Jesus' authority.


JW


Are angels and spirits different "life forms"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p846578

Can any angel be considered Almighty God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 39#p937439

Is there reason to believe angels/spirits are invisible to humans?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 95#p846495

How many angels does the bible say there are?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 04#p962504

What do the scriptures tell us about ANGELS?
viewtopic.php?p=965482#p965482

Does God have a heavenly organisation ?
viewtopic.php?p=1023112#p1023112
Go to other posts related to ....

ANGELS , DEMONS and ...THE HEAVENLY CALLING
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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ttruscott
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Re: Heavenly body

Post #19

Post by ttruscott »

postroad wrote:The text from the book of Hebrews
indicates that Jesus was not an angel but was as far above them as the name he inherited was above theirs. If he isn't an angel and he isn't human, what is he ?
Everyone is a spirit. Angel is a job description, not a kind or species of being. Jesus was a Divine Spirit. Angels are holy spirits; humans are sinful spirits in a physical body.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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