Ark spoil?

[DanieltheDragon]

How did Noah keep the food from spoiling? Assuming the animals had to eat they would need copious amounts of vegetables, fruits, and meats. No freezing, refeogeration, and a high moisture content in the air would indicate the food stores would not last a year before spoiling occurred.

[OnceConvinced]

Imagine if we took this approach in any other investigation, such as criminal cases. Imagine if John is accused of robbing the bank by Hank, only John says he couldn't have, since CCTV shows him to have been a hundred miles away at the time. That isn't a problem, says Hank, godly magic teleported John to the scene of the crime.
If we allow the ark to be declared sea-worthy in violation of all known science, if we hand-wave away any problems with the ship or the story by saying magic solved them...why do we bother using science at all?

Such a great analogy.

As I have said before, when it comes to the Noah's Ark story it always eventually comes down to claims of magic. God magically conjures up air conditioning or refrigeration, God magically puts all the animals into hibernation, God magically moves the earth so that the animals don't have to walk or swim to their remote locations (eg Polar Bears to Alaska and Kiwis to New Zealand). Animals evolve in super quick time thanks to God's magic. God may have even magically conjured up some ice cream for Noah and his family.

It always comes down to magic in the end and there has to be hundreds of acts of magic done. No wonder the story is just so preposterous.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 28 by Kenisaw]

You forgot he is using magic gopher wood that has the lightness of Balsa wood the strength of iron wood, and the flexibility of ceder. It is also naturally water resistant and is elastic like rubber.

It also has a property of mangroves that turns salt water into fresh water and he uses live tries that grow eucalyptus leaves for Koalas and has meat fruit for the carnivores.

It also grows uniformly so without proper milling practices provides only minimal gaps.

[1213]

…But then I realized that the design wouldn't even float. In the bottom of the boat, running down the center longways, there is a storage area for fresh water. Based on the scale this is roughly 15' by 15' square and 450' feet long (length of the boat)…

The boat is divided to many sections, the water storage is not as long as the ark. And in the drawing the cross section is 6x7,5 ft. And it doesn’t need to contain all water that was needed, because there was raining 40 days and after that it may have been possible that the water near the ark was fresh enough to drink. That water storage could actually be like well that is filled from outside the ark automatically, perhaps even with natural filter system.

….You'd also have to have storage tanks for clams, mussels, crayfish, etc that animals like otters, raccoons, and various birds eat…

I don’t see any reason to believe the clams, mussels, crayfish etc. could not survive outside the ark and be catched up from the ark.

[Kenisaw]

…But then I realized that the design wouldn't even float. In the bottom of the boat, running down the center longways, there is a storage area for fresh water. Based on the scale this is roughly 15' by 15' square and 450' feet long (length of the boat)…

The boat is divided to many sections, the water storage is not as long as the ark. And in the drawing the cross section is 6x7,5 ft. And it doesn’t need to contain all water that was needed, because there was raining 40 days and after that it may have been possible that the water near the ark was fresh enough to drink. That water storage could actually be like well that is filled from outside the ark automatically, perhaps even with natural filter system.

The water storage is shown to go the entire length of the boat per the plans. The scale is in meters, not feet, your measurements are way off. The water area actually scales to over 10 m wide, but I went 15'x15' to be ultra conservative. If you go with the actual scaled size of the water area the water weight exceeds the 5400 tons that the design says it can carry...

Where did the rainwater enter the boat? Do you realize how big an opening you would need to fill hundreds of thousands of cubic feet of area with rainwater multiple times? How did they get it down to the storage area completely clean? They didn't have piping.

I've already explained how all the water would have been mixed together and still be saline because of the ration of saltwater to fresh water on earth (about 97% to 3%). The water "near the ark" would have been saline. There are two ways to get freshwater from saline water. One is through reverse osmosis, which requires 1000 psi, beyond the technical capabilities of the Bronze Age. The second is distillation/desalination, which requires a lot of fuel and a large container and piping. Desal has never produced larger volumes of water until modern times, and even the ability to produce a few gallons wasn't possible until around 200 BC, well after Noah and his fabled boat ride.

They had to carry their water on the boat, and it was too much water for the boat to float. The math doesn't lie.

….You'd also have to have storage tanks for clams, mussels, crayfish, etc that animals like otters, raccoons, and various birds eat…

I don’t see any reason to believe the clams, mussels, crayfish etc. could not survive outside the ark and be catched up from the ark.[/quote]

First, we are talking freshwater creatures, not saltwater. The animals I mention can't eat the saltwater varieties.

Second, those are bottom dwelling creatures. They would have been hundreds if not thousands of feet below the surface. Clams and mussels can't move, and their young larvae would have had to attach to the tops of mountains in order to be shallow enough to find, and they need time to grow. The ark, being rudderless and without a way to move in a specific direction, wouldn't have the ability to find them, or stay there if they did. Crayfish, lobsters, and so forth are mobile, but there wouldn't be any food on the tops of mountains so they wouldn't move there any way. The freshwater species would be dead from the saline water in pretty quick order.

This is not some form of esoteric knowledge here either, by the way. This is easily verified and researched by anyone. If you do a little research before posting your rationalizations, I think you will readily find "reason" to think otherwise on a lot of what you are posting.

[1213]

The water storage is shown to go the entire length of the boat per the plans.

That is interesting claim. I have made the drawings, so I know that the water storage doesn’t go the entire length of the ark. But perhaps I should make it more clear, if it can somehow be interpreted otherwise.

The scale is in meters, not feet, your measurements are way off.

I know what the scale is, the diameter of the thickest logs is 0,46 m or about 1,5 ft. Four of them makes 6 ft.

Where did the rainwater enter the boat?

There is opening on the roof ridge for light. It could have been cut so that the rain water can go to the water storage.

I've already explained how all the water would have been mixed together and still be saline because of the ration of saltwater to fresh water on earth (about 97% to 3%).

The main ice covered landmass is Antarctica at the South Pole, with about 90 percent of the world's ice (and 70 percent of its fresh water). Antarctica is covered with ice an average of 2,133 meters (7,000 feet) thick. If all of the Antarctic ice melted, sea levels around the world would rise about 61 meters (200 feet).

http://science.howstuffworks.com/enviro ... ion473.htm

I think that could be very good addition to freshwater count.

Second, those are bottom dwelling creatures. They would have been hundreds if not thousands of feet below the surface.

Not all was covered with hundreds or thousands of feet water. According to the story, some places had just 270 in. water on top of land.

The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered.
Gen. 7:20

[Willum]

[Replying to 1213]

I know what the scale is, the diameter of the thickest logs is 0,46 m or about 1,5 ft. Four of them makes 6 ft.

and done without steel tools. Amazing!

No wonder there are no trees there! Noah depleted them...

Oh, that's right, I forgot, gopher wood is very pliable until it dries out. Then it becomes stronger than iron.

Or is it stronger than irony?

How else could the arks bottom not shear it into two pieces?

[Kenisaw]

The water storage is shown to go the entire length of the boat per the plans.

That is interesting claim. I have made the drawings, so I know that the water storage doesn’t go the entire length of the ark. But perhaps I should make it more clear, if it can somehow be interpreted otherwise.

There's nothing on the drawing indicating the water storage does not run down the length. I hope you at least put it in the middle of the boat, otherwise you'll get quite heavy on one end.

[/quote]

Where did the rainwater enter the boat?

There is opening on the roof ridge for light. It could have been cut so that the rain water can go to the water storage.[/quote]

And run it through floors of dirty animals and unsanitary conditions to get to the water storage? The water would be unusable. I've already mentioned the lack of adequate piping I believe.

I've already explained how all the water would have been mixed together and still be saline because of the ration of saltwater to fresh water on earth (about 97% to 3%).

The main ice covered landmass is Antarctica at the South Pole, with about 90 percent of the world's ice (and 70 percent of its fresh water). Antarctica is covered with ice an average of 2,133 meters (7,000 feet) thick. If all of the Antarctic ice melted, sea levels around the world would rise about 61 meters (200 feet).

http://science.howstuffworks.com/enviro ... ion473.htm

I think that could be very good addition to freshwater count.

That ice is 70% of the FRESHWATER on Earth. That is 2% of the entire volume of water on Earth. It would do nothing to dilute the salinity of the ocean water. You haven't solved the problem.

Second, those are bottom dwelling creatures. They would have been hundreds if not thousands of feet below the surface.

Not all was covered with hundreds or thousands of feet water. According to the story, some places had just 270 in. water on top of land.

Yes, and no food sources for those bottom dwelling creatures, so reason for them to go there. And they'd have to get there even if they did want to go there. And the ark has no way to navigate to such a place, or stay there once it arrived, to be able to fish for those things. You haven't solved the problem.

The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered.
Gen. 7:20

That covers the highest mountain. Not all mountains are of the same height. All the other mountains would have to be covered by more water. With no food source on them, and the steep sides sloping away quickly, miles from where the bottom dwellers live...you haven't solved the problem.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to post 11 by DanieltheDragon]

Are you saying that God is unable to put any creature he wants into suspended animation?

Ouila! There we have. It always comes down to magic in the end. Anything can be justified by claiming that magic was involved.

The problem with the Noah's ark story is it requires God to perform hundreds of magical acts for it to work. It would make more sense for God to simply just cause all the evil people to drop dead. But now, apparently God would rather have Noah jump through hoops and perform hundreds of miracles instead.

You are not thinking it through! If all the evil people just dropped dead the bodies would cause a plague et cetera

The masses of remaining wild animals would slay Noahs family in no time!

And "god" seems to have wanted to produce a remarkable story for his favourite book bible.
This was sucessfull or we would not have this thread millenniums after the fact.

Better hundreds of magical acts to perform a good story, than one magical act that leads to disaster.

[Tcg]

The masses of remaining wild animals would slay Noahs family in no time!

What masses of remaining wild animals are you referring to? Are you suggesting some treaded water for a year or so?


Tcg

[brunumb]

You are not thinking it through! If all the evil people just dropped dead the bodies would cause a plague et cetera

The masses of remaining wild animals would slay Noahs family in no time!

Not really. Population density would have been quite low in the beginning. Predatory animals would have dealt with a lot of the dead whilst the rest would have rotted away fairly quickly. Disease would not have been a big issue with almost everyone dead. Noah and family could easily have found a more isolated environment to start repopulating the earth. I wonder if gestation periods were different back then, as in the case of radioactive decay rates.