"True worship acceptable to God"

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Elijah John
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"True worship acceptable to God"

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the only group which practices "true worship acceptable to God" and that all other sects do not.

Seems an extraordinary claim.

Prove it!,... Give us extraordinary proof to support your extraordinary claim.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Blastcat
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Post #51

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 49 by onewithhim]
onewithhim wrote:
So you are really saying that let's never mind the Bible---it is a bunch of crazy talk. Right?
He didn't say that.. those are YOUR words, and your words alone.
Why do you want to put words in his mouth like that?


You are just WRONG.



:)

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Post #52

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 47 by dio9]
Should I have said honest gratitude and appreciation is worship?
You did!
True Worship is nothing more than appreciation and gratitude.

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Post #53

Post by Wootah »

onewithhim wrote:
dio9 wrote: True worship is to be not like a Pharisee's of empty ritual , (no offense to any modern day Christian Pharisees) for the sake of ritual. But of genuine gratefulness for all good things around us.
When you sit down to eat , are you worship-fully grateful for your bread? True Worship is nothing more than appreciation and gratitude.
So you are really saying that let's never mind the Bible---it is a bunch of crazy talk. Right?
Moderator Comment
Hi onewithhim,

Apart from being a one-liner I fail to see how you reached the conclusion that dio9's post is implying it's all crazy talk. This is most likely because you are using a one liner.

Please review the Rules.


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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #54

Post by Pierac »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 25 by Pierac]




[center]
I really should count the number of times I have to write: Opinions ≠ Facts.
[/center]

Pierac wrote:
OMG! This has to be the best response I have ever had!
Thank you.
You are too kind.

Pierac wrote:
First off this not my opinion... it's my research
Interesting choice of word.

You don't have an opinion, you say. You have "research", instead.
It seems to me that many people struggle with the meaning of "opinion" in here. Critical thinking helps us decide between "opinion and fact". Something that perhaps even Donald Trump might learn to become aware of in the next 4 years.

Pierac wrote:
Your statement.. I suppose that MOST Christians believe they worship "truly".But not all Christians agree that other Christians do is exactly why I do as you say...
Good.

We agree that not all Christians have the same opinion about what any particular passage in the Bible means. There are theological opinions that differ.

You might agree with some, and disagree with some others.

____________

What we don't agree on is your claim to have the correct interpretation as to what the Bible means, and the people who disagree with you do not.

I am extremely skeptical of that claim ( if you not are making that claim.. correct me, please )

_____________

You have your opinion, and you back it up with scripture, just the way that you are asked to do in the forum. That's really quite good
Pierac wrote:
I study all Christain beliefs... even those whom other Christian don't consider Christian.
Oh, so you don't have an opinion on which opinion is best?
Could you clarify?

Pierac wrote:
My studies often prove according to scripture that those whom other Christian don't consider Christian's actually hold to biblical truth while the majority Christians whom disagree with them actually don't.
Proof is a very strong word.
It's usually only reserved for math.

But as long as you are convinced you have "proof", I suppose you have convinced yourself. However, it is also possible that other Christian's research might "prove" something else to them.

What about outsiders to the faith? We can also arrive at different conclusions using the same material. ( by using our own outsider kind of approach )

Perhaps you are under the misapprehension that your research is perfect, and that everyone else is just wrong. We get that a lot in here, you know. You aren't very special that way.

It seems to be a certain kind of "Christian" condition.

Pierac wrote:
You make a point of saying I...

"Now, you make a case that "true worship" means worshiping the "father".

However, I do no such thing! Jesus does..... It's in my research you read.
Maybe you imagine that Jesus is making the case in front of us.

Just allow me to say for the record, that I'm very skeptical of that.
I think you are the one doing the research, and having conclusions.

I think that in here, you are the one who is trying to make a case, not Jesus.

Pierac wrote:
You rightfully ask/state... That may tell us what god to worship, but again, not how.
Thank you.
I love to be right.

Pierac wrote:
I'm a seeker of the truth... I can easily expose false beliefs in many Christian organizations as I did in my post you so enjoyed... I exposed a false belief in my post... I never offered another belief to replace it
I am quite happy for you that you seek the truth.
You might imagine that you are the only "truth seeker" in existence.

You aren't the only one in here who claims that goal and the ability to expose false beliefs. Many theists claim to have found the truth.. haven't they?

Let's say that I am very skeptical of their truth claims.
What makes your claims any different?

Pierac wrote:
If you know how to worship in spirit and truth... let me know! ;)
I can assure you, that I have no idea what "how to worship in spirit and truth" means. I quite frankly have the opinion that there is no such thing.

I'm not at all sure that anyone knows what "true worship" is.

What we have is lots of claims, like yours.
Some say this, some say that.

So, you disagree with this but maybe not that.
Big deal.

That's what all theologians do.
They are all opinions, not facts.

Not all of them proclaim to have the one and only truth, though.
When someone makes a fantastic claim like that, I become skeptical.

I think to myself this: "Oh, yeah?"

Pierac wrote:
I just exposed false beliefs about worship with in translations of our scriptures and Christian organizations. I gave you and them a rare gift.
I am skeptical.

Your "truth" may just be a gift to mankind, if that truth is true for everyone and not just for yourself. And then again, it may not be such a gift. Maybe, after all, it's just true for you, and you have given yourself the gift of certainty.

I think that opinion can differ on that issue.

Of course, as an agnostic an atheist and a skeptic, I see both sides of any theological argument as ... "not demonstrated true yet".


I use the word "yet" because it's only been about 2000 years.
Evidence for the truth of your beliefs might come pouring in any time now.

Pierac wrote:
They asked for a true worshiper and I showed them.
You showed us your opinion about it, and I'm quite sure that it's based on a lot of research.

Thanks for sharing, by the way.
:)
It is infact you... whom contradict yourself as to be an... agnostic... defined as... 1.a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known. That's an agnostic.. yet you contradict yourself. ... a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known... Yet claim... you know I'm wrong!

I'm different because I only expose false beliefs using scripture that others support... You speak as one who only fears truth... never to seek truth but only to say it does not exist!

DNA is a language... a code of incredible complexity... It did not come about from a molten rock we call earth when the universe was formed. language in as much as code... requires intelligence ... I would respect you more if you claimed aliens created life than it formed out of nothing and wrote the DNA we have today!

Silly child... you do not seek the truth... you only hate that you do not have the truth! At least I'm honest with myself... but your like the trump haters on the news... You hate but can't say why... as no one ever wrote about or even cared about what trump had to say about scripture or truth here... Trump really is a non issue on this site! Yet you bring him to the discussion? How odd! :-k

Are you a snowflake? Do you require a safe zone on this site? See like you using trump... your not the only one who can bring in politics! :boring:

:study:
Paul

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rikuoamero
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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #55

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 54 by Pierac]
DNA is a language... a code of incredible complexity
No, it is not, and the burden of evidence is upon yourself to show that it is so. I don't think this sub-forum's rules of the Bible being authoritative can help you, since the Bible has no mention of DNA, or reference to it, even as a concept if not named as such.
I would respect you more if you claimed aliens created life than it formed out of nothing and wrote the DNA we have today!
This is confusing to me, since imagine BC did that right now. Came right out and said "Aliens created life" and that was it.
Why would you respect that statement? Has BC given you evidence of said aliens? Given you evidence that life was designed?
From my point of view, BC saying "Aliens designed life" or "God designed life" and not providing any supportive evidence is unjustified.
So why would you respect BC more if he said one statement over another, and did not provide evidence for it? Simply because it conforms to what you already believe?
Trump really is a non issue on this site!
Really? So what is it I am seeing on the Religion and Politics subforum?
Image

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Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #56

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 54 by Pierac]



[center]
DNA is not a REAL language, and agnostics can know things.[/center]

Pierac wrote:
It is infact you... whom contradict yourself as to be an... agnostic... defined as... 1.a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known. That's an agnostic.. yet you contradict yourself. ... a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known... Yet claim... you know I'm wrong!


I don't know where you got that definition for agnostic, but It's wrong.
I think you have a definition for a knowledge skeptic.

I'm not a knowledge skeptic.
I think that I can know things and so can others.

I know a lot of things.

What I mean by agnostic is someone who doesn't claim to know anything about the existence of nor any characteristic of gods or goddesses.


Pierac wrote:

I'm different because I only expose false beliefs using scripture that others support... You speak as one who only fears truth... never to seek truth but only to say it does not exist!



I don't say that at all.


Pierac wrote:

DNA is a language... a code of incredible complexity...



'Fraid not.
It's an acid that contains genetic material.


Pierac wrote:

It did not come about from a molten rock we call earth when the universe was formed.



So what?
But for realz.. I don't know and you don't know.

Pretend all you like.


Pierac wrote:

language in as much as code... requires intelligence ...



Sorry, but it does not.
When scientists say that DNA is a "code" they are only talking metaphorically.

Deoxyribonucleic acid, a self-replicating material present in nearly all living organisms as the main constituent of chromosomes. It is the carrier of genetic information.


Pierac wrote:

I would respect you more if you claimed aliens created life than it formed out of nothing and wrote the DNA we have today!



You might not respect my IDEAS, but in this forum at least, we are asked to respect PEOPLE.

I have not ever nor am I planning on saying that life came from nothing.
I have NO idea where or how life began.

But sure, we could SAY that life came from aliens.. why not?
I don't know, and neither do you, my friend.



:)

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Post #57

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Pierac wrote: Silly child... you do not seek the truth...you only hate that you do not have the truth
:warning: Moderator Final Warning

Calling others 'silly child' WILL stop -- one way or another. Personal remarks instead of intelligent, reasoned, honorable debate are NOT permitted.


Please review the Rules.


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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #58

Post by Pierac »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 54 by Pierac]



[center]
DNA is not a REAL language, and agnostics can know things.[/center]

Pierac wrote:
It is infact you... whom contradict yourself as to be an... agnostic... defined as... 1.a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known. That's an agnostic.. yet you contradict yourself. ... a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known... Yet claim... you know I'm wrong!


I don't know where you got that definition for agnostic, but It's wrong.
I think you have a definition for a knowledge skeptic.

I'm not a knowledge skeptic.
I think that I can know things and so can others.

I know a lot of things.

What I mean by agnostic is someone who doesn't claim to know anything about the existence of nor any characteristic of gods or goddesses.


Pierac wrote:

I'm different because I only expose false beliefs using scripture that others support... You speak as one who only fears truth... never to seek truth but only to say it does not exist!



I don't say that at all.


Pierac wrote:

DNA is a language... a code of incredible complexity...



'Fraid not.
It's an acid that contains genetic material.


Pierac wrote:

It did not come about from a molten rock we call earth when the universe was formed.



So what?
But for realz.. I don't know and you don't know.

Pretend all you like.


Pierac wrote:

language in as much as code... requires intelligence ...


Sorry, but it does not.
When scientists say that DNA is a "code" they are only talking metaphorically.


Deoxyribonucleic acid, a self-replicating material present in nearly all living organisms as the main constituent of chromosomes. It is the carrier of genetic information.


Pierac wrote:

I would respect you more if you claimed aliens created life than it formed out of nothing and wrote the DNA we have today!



You might not respect my IDEAS, but in this forum at least, we are asked to respect PEOPLE.

I have not ever nor am I planning on saying that life came from nothing.
I have NO idea where or how life began.

But sure, we could SAY that life came from aliens.. why not?
I don't know, and neither do you, my friend.


:)


Really when like when scientists say that the alphabet is a set of letters or symbols they are only talking metaphorically.

That magically form in to meaningful words and paragraphs with out intelligent design... :-k

Your cute...

:study:
Paul

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #59

Post by tam »

[Replying to post 42 by Blastcat]


But in THIS forum, tam, we ARE supposed to take the Bible as authoritative. Not whatever we can dream up in our heads about "Christ" or the Father.
The question/point was NOT with regard to what is the final authority in this forum. The question/point was with regard to what/who is the final authority on "matters" (quoting OWH). By "matters" OWH did not mean "matters" that pertain to the 'final authority' in this forum. By "matters" OWH meant matters that pertain to what is true and what/who is the final authority for Christians.



OWH suggested that this final authority is the Bible**. But this is untrue, as even that book reveals.


So... as per the example I shared FROM that book (and with perhaps a little bit of reasoning thrown in - if Christ can override something that was written before He walked in the flesh, then obviously His authority is greater and more final than what is written)... Christ - the ACTUAL Word of God - is the final authority.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy


(**Many who profess to be Christian think the same thing. It is one of those doctrines of men that the WTS points out that other religions follow, while failing to see that it also follows doctrines of men. Inerrancy is also a doctrine of men that the WTS upholds. I would not say, however, that they truly follow the doctrine of sola scriptura - another doctrine of men - simply because they do not believe that the bible can be properly understood without their religion.)

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #60

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 59 by tam]
So... as per the example I shared FROM that book (and with perhaps a little bit of reasoning thrown in - if Christ can override something that was written before He walked in the flesh, then obviously His authority is greater and more final than what is written)... Christ - the ACTUAL Word of God - is the final authority.
It seems to me that the Bible is the letter of the Word of God, and Christ and/or God the Father, when speaking directly to individual believers, is/are the spirit of the Word of God.

This is a new thought to me, but it means I am now seeing "what the Spirit says to the churches", and Hebrews 4:12-13, in that way. As also "my sheep hear my voice".

Yes? No?

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