"True worship acceptable to God"

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Elijah John
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"True worship acceptable to God"

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be the only group which practices "true worship acceptable to God" and that all other sects do not.

Seems an extraordinary claim.

Prove it!,... Give us extraordinary proof to support your extraordinary claim.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Blastcat
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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #71

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 70 by onewithhim]
onewithhim wrote:
That is something we can't get anywhere arguing about, since we have gone over this before. I see Intelligent Design and you don't. That's where we'll have to leave it.
I guess so.

Doesn't it bother you that some people ( at least one here ) is disputing the reasonableness of ID? You think that science works that way?



:)

Pierac
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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #72

Post by Pierac »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 58 by Pierac]



[center]
Hoodwinked by creationist propaganda[/center]


Pierac wrote:
Really when like when scientists say that the alphabet is a set of letters or symbols they are only talking metaphorically.
Sorry, but real alphabets are created by humans. In order to communicate.

Calling DNA a "code" is a way for scientists to communicate a very complex and very fundamental bit of biology .

You are mistaking an analogy for what it represents. The DNA acts LIKE a form of code.. They give bits of it LETTERS or labels. What DNA really is ... is acid found in all biological systems, which is evidence for the theory of evolution.

When it's called a "code", or a "sequence", that's a metaphor.
It's the same way when we describe our stomach as part of the "digestive system". It's a DESCRIPTION of what it DOES.

You have been hoodwinked by the creationists who love nothing better than to play on words. Calling DNA a "code" or a "language" is to help up UNDERSTAND what's happening. But what's happening is ALL CHEMICAL.

DNA are CHEMICALS.. not parts of books.

Here is a fragment of a less SIMPLE way of describing what DNA really is:

"The two DNA strands are termed polynucleotides since they are composed of simpler monomer units called nucleotides. Each nucleotide is composed of one of four nitrogen-containing nucleobases—either cytosine (C), guanine (G), adenine (A), or thymine (T)—and a sugar called deoxyribose and a phosphate group. The nucleotides are joined to one another in a chain by covalent bonds between the sugar of one nucleotide and the phosphate of the next, resulting in an alternating sugar-phosphate backbone. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA


So, you see, calling that a "code" is way simpler.
What you call a "language" ( CGAT ) is the simpler way of describing cytosine, guanine, adeline and thymine.


These are MOLECULES. They are CHEMICALS.

The creationists love nothing better than to mess with people's ability to understand anything that seems INTERFERE with their beliefs. Don't feel bad about having been fooled by them... they have an extremely effective propaganda.


Hope you get to realize that DESCRIPTIONS aren't the same as what is being DESCRIBED.


The difficulty you are having is a SEMANTIC one, and not a scientific one.


And your difficulty stems from the creationist's ability to mangle language to suit their purposes. Religions are very clever that way. Word games, however are not science and never will be.

IF you want science facts, I suggest you look towards reputable science, not creationist propaganda.

You have been fooled by very effective anti-science propaganda.
I suggest taking a bit of time off from debating the theory of evolution to study it.


:)
And you still suggest this "very complex and very fundamental bit of biology" as you quote came about from a molten rock [Earth] billions of years ago by accident!


So if we add a little cooling... some water and perhaps a lot of lightening then.... the code pops up to create vision, limbs, feathers, fins... etc.... :-k

I could totally see that happening from nothing! NOT!

I guess it suxs to be Mars! It had water at one time.... Hey... it does have the giant face monument on NASA videos... must have had life too don't you think? ;)

:study:
Paul

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #73

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 72 by Pierac]





[center]I offer help with reasoning[/center]


Pierac wrote:
And you still suggest this "very complex and very fundamental bit of biology" as you quote came about from a molten rock [Earth] billions of years ago by accident!
I never did, Pierac.


You might be able to interpret what I actually do say in a way that makes sense to you, but in this case, it isn't quite what I am actually meaning to say.
  • 1. I do not pretend to know how life began on the planet. I never did, and I never will. Once we DO have the facts, THEN I will know them.
    2. I don't go around writing things that I don't know are TRUE. If I do write something that is false, I am sorry, but that is what I call a MISTAKE. I am not aware that anyone has a scientific hypothesis about the genesis of life on the planet that has been demonstrated to be TRUE. So, if we don't know HOW life began precisely, there is no point in wasting people's time insisting that we DO know it.
    3. Your dichotomy "God" or "Accident" is wrong in many different ways. For example, one of the failures is the word "accident". Everything in nature, including your very existence happens by "ACCIDENT", unless you believe that God does each and every bit of it. I think you really mean that things happen by way of GOD or by way of NATURE. I could go on and on about how bad your dichotomy is. In any case, I have to REJECT your dichotomy. And I don't think that life comes from hot rocks.
    4. The point here is that if you want to know what someone is REALLY thinking, you should ask. If you don't understand what is being said, ask for CLARIFICATION. This is a really important step that many people forget. It's ok to invent what you think other people mean. That's fine. In fact, we can't help ourselves. But just because we can invent a possible meaning, it doesn't mean that we are CORRECT. You aren't correct this time. I did NOT mean what you think I meant.
Pierac wrote:
So if we add a little cooling... some water and perhaps a lot of lightening then.... the code pops up to create vision, limbs, feathers, fins... etc.... :-k
I don't think that a process that takes billions of years can be said to POP UP.
Your incredulity and misunderstanding does not change reality.

The theory of evolution is REAL, or it is NOT.
And this has NOTHING to do with your judgements and opinions.

All of us get it by now that you don't believe that the theory of evolution has any scientific merit. We will take your judgement on advisement. It's extremely ill-informed, however. And you support your opinion with very poor reasoning.


That's two ENORMOUS strikes against the soundness of you case.


I will leave it to others to try to explain the science. I am way better at helping you with the reasoning. I'm offering my help there. I'm not a great logician, but I seem to be more knowledgeable about how to think well than you are at the moment.

You should at least consider my criticisms in that regard. If you want to dismiss them.. then I am NO HELP to you at all. All too many people come in here convinced that they can't POSSIBLY make any mistakes.

Pierac wrote:
I could totally see that happening from nothing! NOT!
Nobody can go back in the past to "see" it.
Nobody says that "life comes from nothing" but someone who doesn't understand how science works. You are tilting at windmills, my friend.


You have fallen for the creationist's propaganda.


It's a very common mistake, the propaganda IS very clever , but also a very sad mistake. It leads you to error.


:)

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #74

Post by Pierac »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 72 by Pierac]

[center]I offer help with reasoning[/center]
Pierac wrote:
And you still suggest this "very complex and very fundamental bit of biology" as you quote came about from a molten rock [Earth] billions of years ago by accident!
I never did, Pierac.


You might be able to interpret what I actually do say in a way that makes sense to you, but in this case, it isn't quite what I am actually meaning to say.
  • 1. I do not pretend to know how life began on the planet. I never did, and I never will. Once we DO have the facts, THEN I will know them.
    2. I don't go around writing things that I don't know are TRUE. If I do write something that is false, I am sorry, but that is what I call a MISTAKE. I am not aware that anyone has a scientific hypothesis about the genesis of life on the planet that has been demonstrated to be TRUE. So, if we don't know HOW life began precisely, there is no point in wasting people's time insisting that we DO know it.
    3. Your dichotomy "God" or "Accident" is wrong in many different ways. For example, one of the failures is the word "accident". Everything in nature, including your very existence happens by "ACCIDENT", unless you believe that God does each and every bit of it. I think you really mean that things happen by way of GOD or by way of NATURE. I could go on and on about how bad your dichotomy is. In any case, I have to REJECT your dichotomy. And I don't think that life comes from hot rocks.
    4. The point here is that if you want to know what someone is REALLY thinking, you should ask. If you don't understand what is being said, ask for CLARIFICATION. This is a really important step that many people forget. It's ok to invent what you think other people mean. That's fine. In fact, we can't help ourselves. But just because we can invent a possible meaning, it doesn't mean that we are CORRECT. You aren't correct this time. I did NOT mean what you think I meant.
Pierac wrote:
So if we add a little cooling... some water and perhaps a lot of lightening then.... the code pops up to create vision, limbs, feathers, fins... etc.... :-k
I don't think that a process that takes billions of years can be said to POP UP.
Your incredulity and misunderstanding does not change reality.

The theory of evolution is REAL, or it is NOT.
And this has NOTHING to do with your judgements and opinions.


All of us get it by now that you don't believe that the theory of evolution has any scientific merit. We will take your judgement on advisement. It's extremely ill-informed, however. And you support your opinion with very poor reasoning.


That's two ENORMOUS strikes against the soundness of you case.


I will leave it to others to try to explain the science. I am way better at helping you with the reasoning. I'm offering my help there. I'm not a great logician, but I seem to be more knowledgeable about how to think well than you are at the moment.

You should at least consider my criticisms in that regard. If you want to dismiss them.. then I am NO HELP to you at all. All too many people come in here convinced that they can't POSSIBLY make any mistakes.

Pierac wrote:
I could totally see that happening from nothing! NOT!
Nobody can go back in the past to "see" it.
Nobody says that "life comes from nothing" but someone who doesn't understand how science works. You are tilting at windmills, my friend.


You have fallen for the creationist's propaganda.


It's a very common mistake, the propaganda IS very clever , but also a very sad mistake. It leads you to error.

:)
Yet, you admit and say that which is a theory... magically becomes a fact when you post about it.... yet I some how have fallen for the creationist's propaganda! :-k

OMG... Your such a liberal.... You want your cake and eat it too!

As a seeker.... I spank not only your false view but the dozens of different views too! even some creationist's. They just have not posted here as of yet!

At least you admit evolution is a theory! But you post as if it's a fact! Evolution a religion based upon faith.... without observable facts! Much like the theology of modern Christianity I expose on this site daily!


You have much to learn in dealing with your bias... you must discard all beliefs (even your-own) ... and seek the truth!

:study:
Paul

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #75

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 74 by Pierac]



[center]Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains how it works.[/center]

Pierac wrote:
Yet, you admit and say that which is a theory... magically becomes a fact when you post about it.... yet I some how have fallen for the creationist's propaganda! :-k
A scientific theory explains facts.

If you are convinced that the creationist propaganda is true, you have fallen for it. I can understand that.. their propaganda is good.

Pierac wrote:
At least you admit evolution is a theory[/u]! But you post as if it's a fact!


NEWS FLASH:

The theory of evolution is a theory
And it's been explaining and predicting facts for over a hundred and fifty years.


It's a fact that there's a sun in the sky.
Scientific theory can explain that to you, too.


You are having language difficulties, perhaps.


Pierac wrote:

Evolution a religion based upon faith.... without observable facts[/u]! Much like the theology of modern Christianity I expose on this site daily!



Then I should take a closer look at your "expositions" .
They are probably just as seriously flawed.

I want to PROMOTE atheism.
I don't want it to be misrepresented by bad thinking.

And, I'm sorry to say that you display bad thinking.

__________________

BLASTCAT IS BEING CLEVER AGAIN:


Two reasons people make thinking mistakes:

  • 1. Their data is wrong
    2. Their reasoning is flawed.

    3. One of the reasons that they have bad data is due to flawed reasoning.
    4. If they can fix how they reason first, then they will know the difference between facts and opinions. So, they will be more likely to have better data.


__________________



:)

Pierac
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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #76

Post by Pierac »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 74 by Pierac]



[center]Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains how it works.[/center]

Pierac wrote:
Yet, you admit and say that which is a theory... magically becomes a fact when you post about it.... yet I some how have fallen for the creationist's propaganda! :-k
A scientific theory explains facts.

If you are convinced that the creationist propaganda is true, you have fallen for it. I can understand that.. their propaganda is good.

Pierac wrote:
At least you admit evolution is a theory[/u]! But you post as if it's a fact!


NEWS FLASH:

The theory of evolution is a theory
And it's been explaining and predicting facts for over a hundred and fifty years.


It's a fact that there's a sun in the sky.
Scientific theory can explain that to you, too.



You are having language difficulties, perhaps.


Pierac wrote:

Evolution a religion based upon faith.... without observable facts[/u]! Much like the theology of modern Christianity I expose on this site daily!



Then I should take a closer look at your "expositions" .
They are probably just as seriously flawed.

I want to PROMOTE atheism.
I don't want it to be misrepresented by bad thinking.

And, I'm sorry to say that you display bad thinking.

__________________

BLASTCAT IS BEING CLEVER AGAIN:


Two reasons people make thinking mistakes:

  • 1. Their data is wrong
    2. Their reasoning is flawed.

    3. One of the reasons that they have bad data is due to flawed reasoning.
    4. If they can fix how they reason first, then they will know the difference between facts and opinions. So, they will be more likely to have better data.


__________________

:)


Your so cute when you post as a child... You just made my point when you said...It's a fact that there's a sun in the sky.

Yes, that's a fact! Not a theory!

Any topic.... no matter how bad you want to be true... can never be a fact with the word theory is attached to it. When any topic becomes a fact.... it leaves the world of theory behind! This is why you fail!

A Theory is....

a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation

an unproved assumption

abstract thought as in ... speculation

A Fact is ...

a piece of information presented as having objective reality.

Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement



While you live and post in a world of Theory.... I choose to seek truth that comes from repeatable careful observations or measurements! These truths both biblical and non-biblical can be found in history. :study: harder...


:study: 8-)
Paul

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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #77

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 76 by Pierac]




[center]
SCIENTIFIC theory ≠ other, more colloquial uses for the word "theory"
[/center]

Pierac wrote:
You just made my point when you said...It's a fact that there's a sun in the sky.
You don't think that it's a fact?
I'm impressed.
Pierac wrote:
Yes, that's a fact! Not a theory!
Yes, it's a fact, not a theory.
We agree.

A theory will EXPLAIN the fact.
A good theory will generate PREDICTIONS.

Sun = fact
Theory = Gravity

The theory's Prediction = Things will gravitate towards the to the sun, and not fly off into space.

Test of the theory = Astronomical observations of things not flying out into space once in orbit around the sun. We can actually calculate how to get to other planets using the theory of gravity. It works. The theory is sound.

We know the theory of evolution is sound because it explains all of the data. And it makes quite stunning predictions. The theory works. It's sound.

Creationist propaganda is very good.
It's so good at what it does that people forget to check out science sources.

It's amazing propaganda.
Unfortunately, creationist sources are just NOT credible sources for science information any more. They actually resort to LYING about the science. And they have been CAUGHT at it, and that, my friend, in federal COURTS.

They keep losing ALL their court cases. But that doesn't stop the propaganda.
And you are falling for it, apparently.

Pierac wrote:
Any topic.... no matter how bad you want to be true... can never be a fact with the word theory is attached to it.
Wrong.
You just don't know how the word is used in science.
An hour on the internet can cure that.

I suggest SCIENCE sites.

Pierac wrote:
When any topic becomes a fact.... it leaves the world of theory behind[/u]! This is why you fail!
Wrong.

We are specifically talking about a SCIENTIFIC THEORY... That's a technical term.
You should look it up.

Pierac wrote:
Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement
Correct.

But the definition of "theory" is not the definition of a "scientific theory".
Try looking that one up.

It should help you.


:)

Pierac
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Re: "True worship acceptable to God"

Post #78

Post by Pierac »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 76 by Pierac]




[center]
SCIENTIFIC theory ≠ other, more colloquial uses for the word "theory"
[/center]

Pierac wrote:
You just made my point when you said...It's a fact that there's a sun in the sky.
You don't think that it's a fact?
I'm impressed.
Pierac wrote:
Yes, that's a fact! Not a theory!
Yes, it's a fact, not a theory.
We agree.

A theory will EXPLAIN the fact.
A good theory will generate PREDICTIONS.

Sun = fact
Theory = Gravity

The theory's Prediction = Things will gravitate towards the to the sun, and not fly off into space.

Test of the theory = Astronomical observations of things not flying out into space once in orbit around the sun. We can actually calculate how to get to other planets using the theory of gravity. It works. The theory is sound.

We know the theory of evolution is sound because it explains all of the data. And it makes quite stunning predictions. The theory works. It's sound.

Creationist propaganda is very good.
It's so good at what it does that people forget to check out science sources.

It's amazing propaganda.
Unfortunately, creationist sources are just NOT credible sources for science information any more. They actually resort to LYING about the science. And they have been CAUGHT at it, and that, my friend, in federal COURTS.

They keep losing ALL their court cases. But that doesn't stop the propaganda.
And you are falling for it, apparently.

Pierac wrote:
Any topic.... no matter how bad you want to be true... can never be a fact with the word theory is attached to it.
Wrong.
You just don't know how the word is used in science.
An hour on the internet can cure that.

I suggest SCIENCE sites.

Pierac wrote:
When any topic becomes a fact.... it leaves the world of theory behind[/u]! This is why you fail!
Wrong.

We are specifically talking about a SCIENTIFIC THEORY... That's a technical term.
You should look it up.

Pierac wrote:
Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement
Correct.

But the definition of "theory" is not the definition of a "scientific theory".
Try looking that one up.


It should help you.


:)
Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 76 by Pierac]




[center]
SCIENTIFIC theory ≠ other, more colloquial uses for the word "theory"
[/center]

Pierac wrote:
You just made my point when you said...It's a fact that there's a sun in the sky.
You don't think that it's a fact?
I'm impressed.
Pierac wrote:
Yes, that's a fact! Not a theory!
Yes, it's a fact, not a theory.
We agree.

A theory will EXPLAIN the fact.
A good theory will generate PREDICTIONS.

Sun = fact
Theory = Gravity

The theory's Prediction = Things will gravitate towards the to the sun, and not fly off into space.

Test of the theory = Astronomical observations of things not flying out into space once in orbit around the sun. We can actually calculate how to get to other planets using the theory of gravity. It works. The theory is sound.

We know the theory of evolution is sound because it explains all of the data. And it makes quite stunning predictions. The theory works. It's sound.

Creationist propaganda is very good.
It's so good at what it does that people forget to check out science sources.

It's amazing propaganda.
Unfortunately, creationist sources are just NOT credible sources for science information any more. They actually resort to LYING about the science. And they have been CAUGHT at it, and that, my friend, in federal COURTS.

They keep losing ALL their court cases. But that doesn't stop the propaganda.
And you are falling for it, apparently.

Pierac wrote:
Any topic.... no matter how bad you want to be true... can never be a fact with the word theory is attached to it.
Wrong.
You just don't know how the word is used in science.
An hour on the internet can cure that.

I suggest SCIENCE sites.

Pierac wrote:
When any topic becomes a fact.... it leaves the world of theory behind[/u]! This is why you fail!
Wrong.

We are specifically talking about a SCIENTIFIC THEORY... That's a technical term.
You should look it up.

Pierac wrote:
Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement
Correct.

But the definition of "theory" is not the definition of a "scientific theory".
Try looking that one up.

It should help you.

:)
Again... thanks for making my point.... The sun rising in the sky is not a Theory as you said was required/needed to explain this fact!


In all actuality... I said…

A Theory is....

a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation

an unproved assumption

abstract thought as in ... speculation

A Fact is ...

a piece of information presented as having objective reality.

Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement
Your looking more foolish and childish with each post.... please continue....

I love bending you over my knee and giving you a good scientific spanking... and no... Theory is required to do so! ;)

You really... and I mean really need to :study: harder!

:study:
Paul

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Post #79

Post by otseng »

Pierac wrote: OMG... Your such a liberal....
I spank not only your false view
You have much to learn in dealing with your bias...
Pierac wrote: Your so cute when you post as a child...
:warning: Moderator Warning


Please avoid the personal attacks and uncivil comments.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

Pierac
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Post #80

Post by Pierac »

[Replying to post 79 by otseng]

Thanks... I'm glad now after Blastcat called you in to end this debate we can all agree.... I was right...

Theories are not facts but opinions that try to and explain an unproved assumption!

Glad we got that all cleared up!

Again... Thanks, :hug:
Paul

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