Unimpressive actions

[Youkilledkenny]

God is said to have done...well....things beyond great. He's said to have created everything (oddly enough he gets no credit for the creation of evil nor the being who is said to have created evil, but that's for another thread).
But when some things in the bible were attributed to him, we see many 'less than impressive' actions.
Take the flood. IF the flood did indeed flood the whole entire planet, that's impressive by human standards for sure. But shouldn't we except a deity such as God to be even more impressive? Maybe some sort of black hole opening up in the earth and swallowing everything he wanted dead instead of water?
Floods are less than spectacular for a being that can do ANYTHING. If I was God, and I wanted people dead, I would be a lot more grand and impressive so that people for the next million years would note what I did. I would want to make an impression that would last for eons. But God didn't seem to do that.
A burning bush that talks and yet isn't consumed? Impressive but bushes burn all the time and some burn for a very long time before they are consumed. While none talk (that I know of anyway) a lot of people hear voices in their head. Did the burning bush have any others that heard the same words, or was it all in his head and only he heard it? Much like Joseph Smith and his reading of those rocks.
As society evolves, we become less impressed with things (horror movie scenes from the 1970s pale in comparison to today) so why wouldn't (shouldn't) we expect God to be more impressive than he has been in the bible?

[1213]

[Replying to post 5 by 1213]

I don’t think the point was to be impressive.

...But using water to drown people when you could have done so much more to make an impact?
Humans use gas to kill. Injections of poisons. Laser guided weapons. Even ancient religions from India show more impressive things from their gods.

Many people say that drowning is the most pleasant way to die. Maybe that was the reason why God chose drowning rather than something else. For example, I read just yesterday about some Finnish person (Patrik Finneman) who was drowned one hour and survived and after that told it was like going softly to sleep.

[Bust Nak]

Imagine yourself looking upon an ant hill that you fostered the creation of, but where all but one of the ants were acting in perverse ways. Killing each other. Stealing from each other. Abusing and ripping each other off...

Oh no, my ants would be perfect. They would be perfect to each other, and living in harmony not just with other ants but with the environment too.

Many people say that drowning is the most pleasant way to die. Maybe that was the reason why God chose drowning rather than something else. For example, I read just yesterday about some Finnish person (Patrik Finneman) who was drowned one hour and survived and after that told it was like going softly to sleep.

You do know that simulated drowning is used as an "enhanced interrogation" technique, right?

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by Youkilledkenny]

For me, first off it needs to be established that a flood of that magnitude actually did happen.

IF
it did not happen,

THEN
there is no answers to give related to the OP questions.

One also has to consider nature - natural events which cause all sorts of havoc to human societies. I haven't seen any evidence that some are spared because they support a particular idea of GOD while those who don't, are not.

I accept that we exist in a very dangerous environment and that in itself has no bearing on my personal understanding and relationship with GOD, as I have come to understand the ideas related to GODs.

Disaster often promotes human to human good-will, which shows at least that humans like that don't really let the evils of nature affect their will towards supporting good.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

As society evolves, we become less impressed with things (horror movie scenes from the 1970s pale in comparison to today) so why wouldn't (shouldn't) we expect God to be more impressive than he has been in the bible?

We can't see God but we can see the impressive universe and diverse life around us. The beauty is astounding, chance or design? Accident or work of art?

You give God the credit for the glory of creation. Shouldn't God therefore also receive credit for those things which we find to be less than glorious in God's creation?


Accident or work of art?

Question: Why does God create deformed babies? Answer: HE DOESN'T. Reproduction is a NATURAL process. And in nature things don't always go right.

[William]

Tricky territory there ToTN.

Are we able to say what is that which 'hasn't gone right' to the degree where beauty is not able to be witnessed?

Essentially it is in the eye of the beholder, yes?

But I do get your point - the absence of the 'ugly' bits do tend to show how fluffy some folk are in regard to their bias. This can lead to putting trust in things which appear to be genuine (suits and makeup, words and beliefs etc) when they are in fact, dangerously not.

It is not the form but what comes through the form which determines the genuine beauty of a thing.

And some are working on positive ways of improving on what nature can do.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Tricky territory there ToTN.

Are we able to say what is that which 'hasn't gone right' to the degree where beauty is not able to be witnessed?

Essentially it is in the eye of the beholder, yes?

But I do get your point - the absence of the 'ugly' bits do tend to show how fluffy some folk are in regard to their bias. This can lead to putting trust in things which appear to be genuine (suits and makeup, words and beliefs etc) when they are in fact, dangerously not.

It is not the form but what comes through the form which determines the genuine beauty of a thing.

And some are working on positive ways of improving on what nature can do.

The subject of deformed babies is a tricky one, that is true. Because it makes everyone uncomfortable. But deformed babies are a fact of life. And they don't just occur to humans. Deformities are found in all species. Deformities are in fact one of the functions of evolution. Because although deformities result in a non viable individual in the overwhelming number of cases, there is the occasional "deformity" (change from the norm for that species) that actually enhances the individual's chances of survival and reproducing. And that new genetic information can serve to strengthen the entire species. Mutation is the engine of evolution.

So if mutation is God's plan, then the deformed child in the picture is part of God's plan. But why should God choose the process of mutation to achieve His ends when it is well within his power to produce perfection each and every time? Since the overwhelming number of deformed babies are not going to survive to reproduce, then this method is incredibly wasteful. If mutation is simply the natural and random effect of nature's inability to get the process right each and every time however, then deformed babies are at least explainable. If no less heart wrenching.



In some ancient societies when a mother gave birth to a deformed baby, the mother was accused of having had intercourse with a demon, and both mother and child were put to death. Because ignorant people often reach ignorant conclusions.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 16 by Tired of the Nonsense]


Yes its that or chernobyle, tough call for the ill informed.

... but we are no longer in the age of ignorance, were the iliterate and can be told that every horror is an "act of God" (or his godess "mother nature") and be expected to believe that and regurgitate that nonesense like parrots. We have moved on, we have have the internet and can google information on the effects of Chernoyle, see pictures of the results of the American's use of depleted uranium on the Iraqi people, we can read about why the Japanese press can no longer report on the ill effects of Fukushima on the Japanese children and we can stop thinking such things are "natures way" or "god's hand" when the only hand we are seeing is that of greedy, individuals that have no limit to their evil.

I don't know who I feel more sorry for, the children or the individuals that are so ill informed of the world around us and so brainwashed and manipulated by the so-called education system that they believe that one eye's babies born with all their organs outside their bodies is "natural" and evolution's move towards a higher form of life.



JW

"“Education should aim at destroying free will so that pupils thus schooled, will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their schoolmasters would have wished. . . . It is for a future scientist to make these maxims precise and to discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black. � ― Bertrand Russell

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 11 by 1213]

Many people say that drowning is the most pleasant way to die.

Most pleasant than what?
What do they have to compare it to?
How many times have they died to make a accurate comparison?

I read just yesterday about some Finnish person (Patrik Finneman) who was drowned one hour and survived and after that told it was like going softly to sleep.

Seems you're making excuses for something terrible.
I'm sure the people who were running and screaming in the flood, getting hit with debris, being sloshed around rocks, trees, in fear thought "man, this is sure the way to go!"

I read just yesterday about some Finnish person (Patrik Finneman) who was drowned one hour and survived...

SMH

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 16 by Tired of the Nonsense]


Yes its that or chernobyle. Tough call for the ill informed.


JW

Deformed babies have been a fact of life since long before Chernobyl. Spontaneous mutations occur when something goes wrong with the process of DNA replication.

Wikipedia
Spontaneous mutations.
Spontaneous mutations on the molecular level can be caused by:[25]
Tautomerism — A base is changed by the repositioning of a hydrogen atom, altering the hydrogen bonding pattern of that base, resulting in incorrect base pairing during replication.
Depurination — Loss of a purine base (A or G) to form an apurinic site (AP site).
Deamination — Hydrolysis changes a normal base to an atypical base containing a keto group in place of the original amine group. Examples include C → U and A → HX (hypoxanthine), which can be corrected by DNA repair mechanisms; and 5MeC (5-methylcytosine) → T, which is less likely to be detected as a mutation because thymine is a normal DNA base.
Slipped strand mispairing — Denaturation of the new strand from the template during replication, followed by renaturation in a different spot ("slipping"). This can lead to insertions or deletions.

posting.php?mode=quote&p=851496&sid=b22 ... 874f01ab38

Nature you see is NOT omnipotent. Nature produces failures as well as successes.

You believe in the existence of demons, if I am not mistaken. Out of curiosity, do you believe that deformed babies occur as a result of the the mother having intercourse with a demon?

[William]

Tricky territory there ToTN.

Are we able to say what is that which 'hasn't gone right' to the degree where beauty is not able to be witnessed?

Essentially it is in the eye of the beholder, yes?

But I do get your point - the absence of the 'ugly' bits do tend to show how fluffy some folk are in regard to their bias. This can lead to putting trust in things which appear to be genuine (suits and makeup, words and beliefs etc) when they are in fact, dangerously not.

It is not the form but what comes through the form which determines the genuine beauty of a thing.

And some are working on positive ways of improving on what nature can do.

The subject of deformed babies is a tricky one, that is true. Because it makes everyone uncomfortable. But deformed babies are a fact of life. And they don't just occur to humans. Deformities are found in all species. Deformities are in fact one of the functions of evolution. Because although deformities result in a non viable individual in the overwhelming number of cases, there is the occasional "deformity" (change from the norm for that species) that actually enhances the individual's chances of survival and reproducing. And that new genetic information can serve to strengthen the entire species. Mutation is the engine of evolution.

The exceptional thing about consciousness in relation to this universe, and specific to our local, is that we are forced to adjust as necessary.

So if mutation is God's plan, then the deformed child in the picture is part of God's plan.

It does have its advantages in relation to human invention, science, etc. Imperfection motivates.

But why should God choose the process of mutation to achieve His ends when it is well within his power to produce perfection each and every time?

According to some mythology.

Since the overwhelming number of deformed babies are not going to survive to reproduce, then this method is incredibly wasteful.

Unless the experience of the consciousness within said form is so fleeting in regard to eternity, that it is not anything in which to get overly uppity about.

If mutation is simply the natural and random effect of nature's inability to get the process right each and every time however, then deformed babies are at least explainable. If no less heart wrenching.

Sometimes there is heartwarming stuff happening in relation to this as well. Its not all dark and gloomy.
If everything goes smoothly enough and human beings get a foot hold in this universe the chances are that eventually they will witness nature's ability to get things right. Certainly in relation to biological evolution there appear to be more right moments than stuff-ups, and as said, human beings are a hardy ornery lot who rise up to the challenge of whatever nature throws at them.
All in all, I would say nature is doing okay but human consciousness has a ways to go in adjusting accordingly.

In some ancient societies when a mother gave birth to a deformed baby, the mother was accused of having had intercourse with a demon, and both mother and child were put to death. Because ignorant people often reach ignorant conclusions.

Indeed they do. Even in relation to ideas of GOD.