The below is taken from a British website http://churchandstate.org.uk, but I think it makes for an interesting debate. Clearly if you believe something is true to enough degree, it becomes your sense of reality. If I firmly believe that a tree at the bottom of my garden was sacred and prayed to it daily, my mind would be numbed to any negative thoughts about said tree and psychologically I would believe that said tree would listen to my problems and therefore unloading problems to it would psychologically make me feel better. Any non answers to my prayers would be disregarded as "being best for me" and all answers vigorously celebrated. The same applies to anything you firmly believe in be it God or a sacred tree......
There is very little that we can prove in this world. However, we can look for evidence to support claims people make and, when there is sufficient supporting evidence and no contrary evidence, we can conclude a claim is probably true.
However, it is easier to prove something is false – all you need is contradictory evidence. Here are my eight reasons why Christianity is false. There is abundant evidence to support each reason. I don’t have space here to give the evidence but if you are not aware of it, I can provide it.
1. There is clear evidence that prayer does not work despite the Bible promising prayers will be answered.
2. There is clear evidence that humans invent gods and there is no reason to believe the Jewish god is an exception.
3. There is clear evidence that religions and gods are propagated through culture by infecting children, and no evidence that they are propagated by gods.
4. There is clear evidence that religions evolve as human understanding of the world changes whilst a real, God-given religion, should never need to change.
5. There is clear evidence that humans on this planet have unequal access to Christianity so, if Christianity is true, billions would be condemned to hell for no fault of their own. This contradicts the Christian notion that God is omni-benevolent.
6. There is clear evidence that the Bible, supposedly inspired by God, is riddled with the type of errors that we would expect from Iron Age men but not from the creator of the universe.
7. Christian theology is incoherent to the point of absurdity. God killing his son so he can forgive our future sin is like me breaking my son’s legs so I can forgive my neighbour in case she ever parks her car on my drive. It is quite ridiculous.
8. There is clear evidence that the arguments presented for the existence of God are founded on logical fallacies – all of them. All that is left for Christians is faith and their feelings. We know that faith and feelings can be used to believe in any god at all – including non-existent gods. So faith and feelings are epistemologically worthless. And that is all Christians have.
Is Christianity another false religion
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Is Christianity another false religion
Post #11[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]
PRAYER may well "work" according what is meant by "work". If for example, prayer is considered to "work" if you feel better after doing it then by far the majority of believers would say prayer works. Further the only way to present this as "clear evidence" is to first prove the bible suggests that all prayers will, at least, be answered. Since this is not what Christianity teaches, I do believe this is what is considered a "strawman argument".
What do you consider proof or prayer working?? One of the most intensive studies on prayer for the sick in heart patients proved that prayer does not work as passages of the Bible imply (pray for the sick and they will be healed). The study showed no better results for those prayed for than those not prayed for. In my opinion prayer is placebo, if you believe it enough, it may help like a little blue sugar pill.
PRAYER may well "work" according what is meant by "work". If for example, prayer is considered to "work" if you feel better after doing it then by far the majority of believers would say prayer works. Further the only way to present this as "clear evidence" is to first prove the bible suggests that all prayers will, at least, be answered. Since this is not what Christianity teaches, I do believe this is what is considered a "strawman argument".
What do you consider proof or prayer working?? One of the most intensive studies on prayer for the sick in heart patients proved that prayer does not work as passages of the Bible imply (pray for the sick and they will be healed). The study showed no better results for those prayed for than those not prayed for. In my opinion prayer is placebo, if you believe it enough, it may help like a little blue sugar pill.
Re: Is Christianity another false religion
Post #12JehovahsWitness wrote:What is the evidence that "humans invented god"?psychdave wrote: 2. There is clear evidence that humans invent gods and there is no reason to believe the Jewish god is an exception.
If by "god" you mean the invisible supernatural creator (the understanding of God in Christianity) please outline your evidence to support this claim.
Multiple religions concurrently exist that each claim their god is the one and only god but none of these can prove either that their god exists or that any other god doesn't exist. Most of these religions agree that they cannot all be true and yet they cannot provide proof that any one religion is the true religion. Anyone can in fact make yet another new religion and it has happened continually and consistently through the history of humanity and continues today.
Re: Is Christianity another false religion
Post #13[Replying to post 5 by Goose]
Thanks for your replies. Whilst you have questioned my questions, you haven't submitted any rock solid proof that Christianity isn't false.
Thanks for your replies. Whilst you have questioned my questions, you haven't submitted any rock solid proof that Christianity isn't false.
Re: Is Christianity another false religion
Post #14JehovahsWitness wrote:psychdave wrote:I suspect you will have a problem providing this evidence because you would have to prove that a given action was NOT initiated by an invisible undetectable being, but feel free you try.If I pick up a banana how pray tell, can you prove that God didn't make me do it
Indeed, on the contrary you can't prove the negative of this. Likewise if I was to say that an angel appeared to me and told me I must drive to the shopping mall immediately, unless you were there with me, you could neither 100% prove or disprove my statement. What most intellectuals are looking for is solid 100% proof of something. Relating to the the banana, I know the banana is yellow (I've seen it), I know it's quite soft in side,(I've felt it) and I know it tastes pretty good, (I've tasted it).
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Re: Is Christianity another false religion
Post #15[Replying to JehovahsWitness]
Christianity does not teach that all prayers will be answered. Christianity DOES teach that God answers prayers, however. It's a failure proof system. And if you imagine that it is working, you naturally feel better. One of the natural functions of this forum however, is to separate imagination, which is to say make believe, from reality. The problem with reality is that it is under no obligation to make anyone feel good. Although it sometimes does.
The color blue will be used to indicate my comments.
The "God of Abraham" was the "God most high" of the Mesopotamian and Canaanite pantheon. This is hardly surprising, since Abraham was himself from the Mesopotamian city of Ur.
Genesis 11:
[31] And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
The "God most high of Abraham was known as EL, El Elyon, or El the Bull.
"The "God Most High" of Melchizedek was the city deity of Canaanite Jerusalem, Elyon. "The title Elyon is probably not Israelite. Genesis 14 identifies El-elyon with the god worshipped by Melchizedek at Jerusalem, and identifies this deity with the God of the fathers worshipped by Abraham" (Dictionary of the Bible, p.316, by father John L. McKenzie S.J.).
El (deity)
Wikipedia,
’Ēl (or ’Il, written aleph-lamed, e.g. Ugaritic: ð�Ž›ð�Ž�, Phoenician: ð�¤€ð�¤‹,[1] Hebrew: ×�ל‎‎, Syriac: Ü�Ü â€Ž, Arabic: إل‎‎ or إله, cognate to Akkadian: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity", or referring (as a proper name) to any one of multiple major Ancient Near East deities. A rarer spelling, "'ila", represents the predicate form in Old Akkadian and in Amorite.[2] The word is derived from the Proto-Semitic archaic biliteral ʔ‑L, meaning "god".
Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion,[4] the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period,[5] and the God of the Hebrew Bible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)
Wikipedia
Elyon
Elyon (Biblical Hebrew עליון; Masoretic ʿEly�n) is an epithet of the God of the Israelites in the Hebrew Bible. ʾĒl ʿEly�n is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as "Ο ΘΕΟΣ Ο ΥΨΙΣΤΟΣ" (God the highest)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
The Judaeo/Christian God is generally refereed to as "the God of Abraham." Abraham is believed to have lived circa 1800-2000 BC, if he existed at all. In Gen.14:18 we find Abraham making common cause with Melchizedek the priest-king of Canaanite Salem (Jerusalem). Abraham and Melchizedek both worshiped "God most high." This was the creator God El Elyon. Elyon was the creator God of Sumerian beliefs, known as El the Bull, and depicted in Mesopotamian art as a bull, carrying the celestial disk of creation between his horns.
Wikipedia
El
Ugarit and the Levant
El is called again and again Tôru ‘El ("Bull El" or "the bull god").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
El had a consort named Asherah.
Wikipedia
Asherah/Astarte was also known as Ishtar to the Babylonians, and was associated with the planet Venus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar
Asherath was the consort of "God most high" of Moses and also Melchizedek, the Canaanite priest-king of Salem (Jerusalem). (Gen.14:18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchizedek
El also had many sons.
Wikipedia
El
The Eternal One (‘Olam) has made a covenant oath with us,
Asherah has made (a pact) with us.
And all the sons of El,
And the great council of all the Holy Ones.
With oaths of Heaven and Ancient Earth.
In some inscriptions, the name ’El qone ’ar? meaning "'El creator of Earth" appears, even including a late inscription at Leptis Magna in Tripolitania dating to the second century. In Hittite texts, the expression becomes the single name Ilkunirsa, this Ilkunirsa appearing as the husband of Asherdu (Asherah) and father of 77 or 88 sons.
In a Hurrian hymn to 'El (published in Ugaritica V, text RS 24.278), he is called ’il brt and ’il dn which Cross (p. 39) takes as ''El of the covenant' and ''El the judge' respectively.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity
Who was the god Baal?
Compelling Truth
In Judges 8:33 Baal-berith was worshiped by the Israelites after the death of Gideon. In Canaanite belief, Baal was the son of El and the goddess Asherah. Baal became more powerful than even El, defeating various other gods in battles. Baal was often worshiped as a sun god or storm god.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/baal.html
In an act that would prove to be one of extraordinarily irony, when Moses returned from the mountain with the ten commandments, he found the Israelites in the process of constructing a golden calf to worship, and Moses excoriated them quite viciously for it. What were they doing? ATTEMPTING TO WORSHIP THE SON OF GOD IN THE FORM OF A CALF.
El Elyon was an aloof god; a creator god who was little concerned with the affairs of mankind. By 1000 BC, the time of king David, El Elyon had transformed into YHWH, the very hands on but very jealous and demanding tribal god of Israel. Clearly, the creator El was the chief deity of the fathers of Abraham and was the inspiration for what was to become the family/tribal deity of Abraham himself. But the "El of Abraham" would come to be seen, at least by his descendants, as a distinct entity, different from the El of their Canaanite neighbors, and uniquely their own.
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit
Judaism
Main article: Holy Spirit in Judaism
The Hebrew language phrase ruach ha-kodesh (Hebrew: רוח הקודש, "holy spirit" also transliterated ruacḥ ha-qodesh) is a term used in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and Jewish writings to refer to the spirit of YHWH (רוח יהוה). It literally means "spirit of the holiness" or "spirit of the holy place". The Hebrew terms ruacḥ qodshəka, "thy holy spirit" (רוּחַ קָדְשְ�ךָ), and ruacḥ qodsh�, "his holy spirit" (רוּחַ קָדְש�וֹ) also occur (when a possessive suffix is added the definite article is dropped).[citation needed]
The "Holy Spirit" in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of the Most High God, over the universe or over his creatures, in given contexts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
"The "God Most High " of the Canaanites, EL-Elyon, was the creator deity El the Bull. "The head of epic pantheon is the god El. El had probably declined in relative prominence during the second half of the third and first half of the Second Millennium (judging from the theophorous of Semitic origin on cuneiform tablets ranging in date from the Twenty-Sixth century on). Yet he remained the active head of some local pantheons and his name still appears as the first component of such divine names as El-elyon and El-olam." (Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan, p.120, W.F. Albright).
"Relations with the new Canaanite environment led to complications in Israelite religious concepts. Baal and Ashera did not supersede Yahweh (although not yet so named), but were honored along side of him, or perhaps ranked a bit lower. Yahweh was revered as the Israelite national god; Baal as the ruling local genius." (History of the Jews, p.102, Simon Dubnov)."
A thousand years later this god had transformed yet again into the god of love of the Christians, Jehovah. Muslims call God Allah, and claim him to be the god of Abraham. And that was Elyon. El the Bull.
Wikipedia
Allah
Allah (/ˈælə, ˈɑ�lə, əlˈlɑ�/; Arabic: الله‎, translit. All�h‎, pronounced [ɑɫ'ɫɑh] ( listen)) is the Arabic word referring to God in Abrahamic religions. In the English language, the word traditionally refers to God in Islam. The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-il�h, which means "the god", and is related to El and Elohim, the Hebrew words for God.[6][7]
The word Allah has been used by Arabic people of different religions since pre-Islamic times.[8] More specifically, it has been used as a term to refer to God by Muslims (both Arab and non-Arab) and Arab Christians. It is now mainly used by Muslims and Arab Christians to refer to God.[9] It is also often, albeit not exclusively, used in this way by Bábists, Bahá'Ãs, Indonesian and Maltese Christians, and Mizrahi Jews. Similar usage by Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia has recently led to political and legal controversies
Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia also use and have used the word to refer to God. This has caused political and legal controversies there as the law in West Malaysia prohibits non-Islamic uses of the word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
Whether these gods are the same god, distinctly different gods, or never existed to begin with depends entirely upon to whom one is speaking.
Several weeks ago I awoke from a dream in which I was flying. I wanted to immediately go back to sleep and dream about flying some more, because it made me feel good. And yet I know perfectly well that what goes on in my head in dreams is not real and does not translate to waking reality. The same is true for the things that I can imagine in my head. Still, I remember enough of the dream that I can still recreate the experience of flying in my imagination. And it makes me feel good. Imagination is perfectly capable of elevating a person's mood and causing them to feel happy.JehovahsWitness wrote: PRAYER may well "work" according what is meant by "work". If for example, prayer is considered to "work" if you feel better after doing it then by far the majority of believers would say prayer works. Further the only way to present this as "clear evidence" is to first prove the bible suggests that all prayers will, at least, be answered. Since this is not what Christianity teaches, I do believe this is what is considered a "strawman argument".
Christianity does not teach that all prayers will be answered. Christianity DOES teach that God answers prayers, however. It's a failure proof system. And if you imagine that it is working, you naturally feel better. One of the natural functions of this forum however, is to separate imagination, which is to say make believe, from reality. The problem with reality is that it is under no obligation to make anyone feel good. Although it sometimes does.
Humans have physical existence. One of the proofs of that is this conversation. No physical existence, no conversation. God has no physical existence. At least none that can be observed or verified. God can only be imagined. This evidence suggest that humans, which have observable physical existence, have created God in their imaginations. Humans invented the idea of God to explain things which they did not understand.JehovahsWitness wrote: What is the evidence that "humans invented god"?
If by "god" you mean the invisible supernatural creator (the understanding of God in Christianity) please outline your evidence to support this claim.
psychdave wrote: 4. There is clear evidence that religions evolve as human understanding of the world changes whilst a real, God-given religion, should never need to change.
The historical evidence indicates that the Hebrew religion evolved from the Mesopotamian religion, and that the Hebrew religion in turn evolved into the Christian religion and Muslim religion. Both the Christian religion and the Muslim religion are also heavily indebted to the Persian Zoroastrian religion, but that is a very complicated connection which I will not get into here.JehovahsWitness wrote: Say who?! Who are you the "religion police"? Sounds like Catholic dogma to me, unless you are the Pope, who are you to say what a religion should or should not do to qualify as a God-given religion?
The color blue will be used to indicate my comments.
The "God of Abraham" was the "God most high" of the Mesopotamian and Canaanite pantheon. This is hardly surprising, since Abraham was himself from the Mesopotamian city of Ur.
Genesis 11:
[31] And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
The "God most high of Abraham was known as EL, El Elyon, or El the Bull.
"The "God Most High" of Melchizedek was the city deity of Canaanite Jerusalem, Elyon. "The title Elyon is probably not Israelite. Genesis 14 identifies El-elyon with the god worshipped by Melchizedek at Jerusalem, and identifies this deity with the God of the fathers worshipped by Abraham" (Dictionary of the Bible, p.316, by father John L. McKenzie S.J.).
El (deity)
Wikipedia,
’Ēl (or ’Il, written aleph-lamed, e.g. Ugaritic: ð�Ž›ð�Ž�, Phoenician: ð�¤€ð�¤‹,[1] Hebrew: ×�ל‎‎, Syriac: Ü�Ü â€Ž, Arabic: إل‎‎ or إله, cognate to Akkadian: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity", or referring (as a proper name) to any one of multiple major Ancient Near East deities. A rarer spelling, "'ila", represents the predicate form in Old Akkadian and in Amorite.[2] The word is derived from the Proto-Semitic archaic biliteral ʔ‑L, meaning "god".
Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion,[4] the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period,[5] and the God of the Hebrew Bible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)
Wikipedia
Elyon
Elyon (Biblical Hebrew עליון; Masoretic ʿEly�n) is an epithet of the God of the Israelites in the Hebrew Bible. ʾĒl ʿEly�n is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as "Ο ΘΕΟΣ Ο ΥΨΙΣΤΟΣ" (God the highest)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
The Judaeo/Christian God is generally refereed to as "the God of Abraham." Abraham is believed to have lived circa 1800-2000 BC, if he existed at all. In Gen.14:18 we find Abraham making common cause with Melchizedek the priest-king of Canaanite Salem (Jerusalem). Abraham and Melchizedek both worshiped "God most high." This was the creator God El Elyon. Elyon was the creator God of Sumerian beliefs, known as El the Bull, and depicted in Mesopotamian art as a bull, carrying the celestial disk of creation between his horns.
Wikipedia
El
Ugarit and the Levant
El is called again and again Tôru ‘El ("Bull El" or "the bull god").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit (Judaism)
The Holy Spirit in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of God Most High (Hebrew El Elyon) over the universe or over God's creatures, in given contexts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
El had a consort named Asherah.
Wikipedia
Asherah/Astarte was also known as Ishtar to the Babylonians, and was associated with the planet Venus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar
Asherath was the consort of "God most high" of Moses and also Melchizedek, the Canaanite priest-king of Salem (Jerusalem). (Gen.14:18)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchizedek
El also had many sons.
Wikipedia
El
The Eternal One (‘Olam) has made a covenant oath with us,
Asherah has made (a pact) with us.
And all the sons of El,
And the great council of all the Holy Ones.
With oaths of Heaven and Ancient Earth.
In some inscriptions, the name ’El qone ’ar? meaning "'El creator of Earth" appears, even including a late inscription at Leptis Magna in Tripolitania dating to the second century. In Hittite texts, the expression becomes the single name Ilkunirsa, this Ilkunirsa appearing as the husband of Asherdu (Asherah) and father of 77 or 88 sons.
In a Hurrian hymn to 'El (published in Ugaritica V, text RS 24.278), he is called ’il brt and ’il dn which Cross (p. 39) takes as ''El of the covenant' and ''El the judge' respectively.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity
Who was the god Baal?
Compelling Truth
In Judges 8:33 Baal-berith was worshiped by the Israelites after the death of Gideon. In Canaanite belief, Baal was the son of El and the goddess Asherah. Baal became more powerful than even El, defeating various other gods in battles. Baal was often worshiped as a sun god or storm god.
https://www.compellingtruth.org/baal.html
In an act that would prove to be one of extraordinarily irony, when Moses returned from the mountain with the ten commandments, he found the Israelites in the process of constructing a golden calf to worship, and Moses excoriated them quite viciously for it. What were they doing? ATTEMPTING TO WORSHIP THE SON OF GOD IN THE FORM OF A CALF.
El Elyon was an aloof god; a creator god who was little concerned with the affairs of mankind. By 1000 BC, the time of king David, El Elyon had transformed into YHWH, the very hands on but very jealous and demanding tribal god of Israel. Clearly, the creator El was the chief deity of the fathers of Abraham and was the inspiration for what was to become the family/tribal deity of Abraham himself. But the "El of Abraham" would come to be seen, at least by his descendants, as a distinct entity, different from the El of their Canaanite neighbors, and uniquely their own.
Wikipedia
Holy Spirit
Judaism
Main article: Holy Spirit in Judaism
The Hebrew language phrase ruach ha-kodesh (Hebrew: רוח הקודש, "holy spirit" also transliterated ruacḥ ha-qodesh) is a term used in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and Jewish writings to refer to the spirit of YHWH (רוח יהוה). It literally means "spirit of the holiness" or "spirit of the holy place". The Hebrew terms ruacḥ qodshəka, "thy holy spirit" (רוּחַ קָדְשְ�ךָ), and ruacḥ qodsh�, "his holy spirit" (רוּחַ קָדְש�וֹ) also occur (when a possessive suffix is added the definite article is dropped).[citation needed]
The "Holy Spirit" in Judaism generally refers to the divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom. It also refers to the divine force, quality, and influence of the Most High God, over the universe or over his creatures, in given contexts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_(Judaism
"The "God Most High " of the Canaanites, EL-Elyon, was the creator deity El the Bull. "The head of epic pantheon is the god El. El had probably declined in relative prominence during the second half of the third and first half of the Second Millennium (judging from the theophorous of Semitic origin on cuneiform tablets ranging in date from the Twenty-Sixth century on). Yet he remained the active head of some local pantheons and his name still appears as the first component of such divine names as El-elyon and El-olam." (Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan, p.120, W.F. Albright).
"Relations with the new Canaanite environment led to complications in Israelite religious concepts. Baal and Ashera did not supersede Yahweh (although not yet so named), but were honored along side of him, or perhaps ranked a bit lower. Yahweh was revered as the Israelite national god; Baal as the ruling local genius." (History of the Jews, p.102, Simon Dubnov)."
A thousand years later this god had transformed yet again into the god of love of the Christians, Jehovah. Muslims call God Allah, and claim him to be the god of Abraham. And that was Elyon. El the Bull.
Wikipedia
Allah
Allah (/ˈælə, ˈɑ�lə, əlˈlɑ�/; Arabic: الله‎, translit. All�h‎, pronounced [ɑɫ'ɫɑh] ( listen)) is the Arabic word referring to God in Abrahamic religions. In the English language, the word traditionally refers to God in Islam. The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-il�h, which means "the god", and is related to El and Elohim, the Hebrew words for God.[6][7]
The word Allah has been used by Arabic people of different religions since pre-Islamic times.[8] More specifically, it has been used as a term to refer to God by Muslims (both Arab and non-Arab) and Arab Christians. It is now mainly used by Muslims and Arab Christians to refer to God.[9] It is also often, albeit not exclusively, used in this way by Bábists, Bahá'Ãs, Indonesian and Maltese Christians, and Mizrahi Jews. Similar usage by Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia has recently led to political and legal controversies
Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia also use and have used the word to refer to God. This has caused political and legal controversies there as the law in West Malaysia prohibits non-Islamic uses of the word.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
Whether these gods are the same god, distinctly different gods, or never existed to begin with depends entirely upon to whom one is speaking.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.-
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Post #16
[Replying to post 5 by Goose]
It doesn't take a rocket scientist that eventually they created a religion that people believed.
Christianity was carried everywhere Rome went. If it were real, it would spread religiously.
2. So, did Rome invent Jesus?
Absolutely.
Jesus advocated blasphemy in the name of Rome. That should be impossible.
Rome was a government ruled officially by the God Jove (iove in Latin).
Caesar (Augustus) is a God in his own right, canonized, and Tiberius, the Emperor in charge when Jesus was alive, was a demi-god. They both had temples near where Jesus preached.
Now imagine, you are Jewish. Within a stones throw of a temple erected to Caesar, Jesus says, "Give to (the god) Caesar, what belongs to him, and give to Theos those things that belong to Him."
Asking you to pay tithes to another God, would make you livid, in fact, in fear for you soul, enough to cause a religious insurrection, which is what happened.
What else did Jesus do? He insisted that obey the pagan monarchy of Rome.
Now Christians, not being Jewish, see this as Jesus outsmarting his detractors, and so it did, but only his gentile detractors. Jews would not, could not see the compromise the Greek and Roman observers would.
So, yes, after years of Romans perfecting war, architecture and religion, religion eventually got good enough to fool most of the people, most of the time.
Still, who could really believe in resurrection?
There is one conclusive proof that Rome usurped the Jews indigenous religion, replacing the God of Israel, with the God of Rome.
This is it!
1. Wherever Rome conquered it used religion as a pacification agent; creating hybrid deities and usurping prophesy and religion. They improved religion over the centuries.But you’d have to show this was the case in regards to Christianity, not simply insinuate it could be the case by virtue of it happening elsewhere.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist that eventually they created a religion that people believed.
Christianity was carried everywhere Rome went. If it were real, it would spread religiously.
2. So, did Rome invent Jesus?
Absolutely.
Jesus advocated blasphemy in the name of Rome. That should be impossible.
Rome was a government ruled officially by the God Jove (iove in Latin).
Caesar (Augustus) is a God in his own right, canonized, and Tiberius, the Emperor in charge when Jesus was alive, was a demi-god. They both had temples near where Jesus preached.
Now imagine, you are Jewish. Within a stones throw of a temple erected to Caesar, Jesus says, "Give to (the god) Caesar, what belongs to him, and give to Theos those things that belong to Him."
Asking you to pay tithes to another God, would make you livid, in fact, in fear for you soul, enough to cause a religious insurrection, which is what happened.
What else did Jesus do? He insisted that obey the pagan monarchy of Rome.
Now Christians, not being Jewish, see this as Jesus outsmarting his detractors, and so it did, but only his gentile detractors. Jews would not, could not see the compromise the Greek and Roman observers would.
So, yes, after years of Romans perfecting war, architecture and religion, religion eventually got good enough to fool most of the people, most of the time.
Still, who could really believe in resurrection?
There is one conclusive proof that Rome usurped the Jews indigenous religion, replacing the God of Israel, with the God of Rome.
This is it!
