Did the "apple" corrupt God as well?

[Willum]

So, one thread leads to another truth, in reality and perhaps even in the Bible as well.

Before the fall in the Garden, whatever reality you wish to ascribe to it, God was good and presumably perfect.

But look what happens after the fall: He is angry, jealous, he performs horrid acts, he encourages horrid acts.

It seems to me that if we assume that God had sin introduced into his being in the fall, it would explain a very great deal.

Employing the psychopathic Samson to murder thousands, not fixing creation, allowing the stealing of the kingdom of God... and the list goes on.

I presume that God wouldn't do such horrible things before the fall, doesn't it makes sense that God was corrupted along with the rest of reality?

So, again, assume events and deeds are true from the Bible, but not statements, words or promises.

[Kenisaw]

Please define what you mean by perfect.

There is no reason why a perfect being cannot create an imperfect thing.

You have given no reason which makes any sense, and this is because you haven't defined what you mean by 'perfect'.

Until you are able to do this, there is little in the way of answer/argument I can offer.

If, for example, you are saying that the universe isn't perfect you need to establish why this is the case.

I think that it is perfect in relation to keeping evil in one place while allowing goodness to counter evil intent and action, through rehabilitation.

Define perfect?

Yes.

Error free.

Is that it then? How do you know you do not err in the definition?

Show me where the error is if you think it is not valid.

Why is the universe not perfect? Look at us.

What about 'us'? We err therefore we are imperfect?

You know anything that makes errors and is perfect? I'd be fascinated to hear about those...

I have to reject your last sentence because you are using subjective concepts as objective goalposts.

Define what the 'objective goalposts' are.

I did in the next sentence, which you decided to separate even though they were in the same paragraph and therefore related. Since that was already defined, I'll move on.

Evil and goodness don't actually exist except in the human mind, and the value of those things changes over time and place.

If they exist in the human mind, then they exist at least as potentials. They are of course acted out into the universe through the human body.

Indeed they do change over time and place, but this in itself does not mean they do not exist.

Show me some empirical data that anything in the universe is universally or objectively evil or good. Skipping ahead because there is no such data, whatever actions humans take are not "good" or "evil" until assigned that concept by an individual's mind.

If the human mind were not able to understand concepts of good and evil, what kind of critter would we most likely resemble?

Since we can understand it I fail to see the point of even asking that question.

They are not standards in any usable way as it relates to perfection.

You claim that good and evil do not exist, except in the human mind, and then you say that they do not relate to perfection, which is defined by you to being 'error free'.

Correct. Perfection has nothing to do with the moral assigned values of good and evil. Perfection is just a commentary on the existence of error. Good and evil are a commentary on the subjective value assigned to some action or idea. They aren't related.

Can you name something which exists in this universe which is, as you put it, 'error free'? Something which is perfect?

The balance of positive and negative energy in the universe would be one.

If you believe that humans are imperfect, how can your definition of perfection be regarded as correct?

So because we are imperfect in whole, we can't be perfect in some aspect? Being imperfect does not mean everything is flawed, faulty, or erroneous.

[Willum]

Was God perfect, under any definition, before the bite, and not perfect afterwards?

[Benoni]

Why would God be angry it was his will the fall of Adam happened. God wanted/ordained Adam to sin; so that Gods people will be changed/mature and grow. When God created Adam a perfect spiritual being with no defects which He did in Sixth day, But there was more to God's plan so he ordained Adam's fall; but in Seventh day God changed Adams nature to the dust of the earth a soul man. With out the fall Adam would have just like many you disagree with; a puppet. God desires obedience more then sacrifice; this takes a process of (SPIRITUAL) growth.

It was Gods choose Adam to sin because God has a greater plan. If God did not ordain Adam and Eves sin; then He is not all knowing. It was God lowered Adam from a spirit to a loving soul, a dust man. It was God who made Adam and Eve innocent; they did not do it them selves. It was God who put the tree of good and evil in the garden. It was God who put the devil, a man slayer, a murderer, a liar in the garden; God totally knew what he was doing with Adam and Eve.