Justice and Mercy

[2timothy316]

There is clearly a difference between God's justice and mankind's justice.

Psalm 116: 5 says,
The Lord is merciful and just, and our God sheweth mercy. (Douay-Rheims Bible)

The Bible puts God's justice and mercy next to each other.

Is this true? Is God's Justice and Mercy two sides of the same coin? What are is different between God's justice and mankind's justice? Can God's justice even be understood? If so, how?

[Wootah]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

You can't be just and merciful. To be merciful is to be unjust. To be just is to be unmerciful. Not even God can be both.

Can you give me an example of being just and merciful?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]



[center]

Some people don't like to think too hard about moral issues[/center]

What are is different between God's justice and mankind's justice?

For something to be truly just it must be understood. Human's are limited in their understanding and so sometimes when they believe something is right or just, it actually isn't.

Well, fortunately for us.. some people think about moral issues.
Some people prefer to be ordered what to think.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 11 by Wootah]



[center]
Define your terms, or we literally do not know what you are talking about. Those two words are vague.[/center]

You can't be just and merciful. To be merciful is to be unjust. To be just is to be unmerciful. Not even God can be both.

Can you give me an example of being just and merciful?

Just to be clear.. we would need a rigorous definition of these two terms in order for us to see the difference between those two, and why they might or might not be mutually exclusive.

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Question:

• 
  
  Could you define "Justice" and "Mercy"?
  
  

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[Wootah]

[Replying to Blastcat]

Justice is applying the law.
Mercy is not applying the law.

eg: The law in a house might be that if you don't eat your vegetables then you don't get dessert. One child eats their vegetables and gets dessert and the other doesn't but then dad relents and lets them both have dessert. That was merciful but unjust.

I can't think of an example where justice and mercy don't contradict.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 14 by Wootah]


[center]

Mercy vs justice
Part Two[/center]

Justice is applying the law.
Mercy is not applying the law.

Three questions about that:

1. When you use the term "merciful", should we assume that you mean "unlawful"?
2. When you use the term "merciful" should we assume you mean "unfair"?
3. You didn't mention forgiveness.. is being merciful forgiving?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 10 by oldbadger]

What you seem to be saying is that the Bible can't be accurate and therefore the message can't be accurate. Is that what you're saying?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

You can't be just and merciful. To be merciful is to be unjust. To be just is to be unmerciful. Not even God can be both.

Can you give me an example of being just and merciful?

Of God's justice yes. Because the the Hebrew word for justice doesn't carry the same meaning as what (at least here in the USA) people think of justice.

For mankind in the book Right and Reason—Ethics in Theory and Practice says that “justice is connected with law, obligation, rights, and duties, and measures out its awards according to equality or merit.�

The breadth and depth of Jehovah’s justice can better be understood by considering the original-language words used in the Bible. In the Hebrew Scriptures, three principal words are involved. The word most often rendered “justice� may also be rendered “what is right.� (Genesis 18:25) The other two words are usually rendered “righteousness.� In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the word translated “righteousness� is defined as the “quality of being right or just.� Basically, then, there is no distinction between righteousness and justice.—Amos 5:24.

So before an example is given we must understand that justice and mercy are only in God's justice and not in mankind's view of justice.

For that example look no further than Jesus giving his life so that all mankind has the option to live forever. If we are going by cold and strict 'justice' as humans do, then legally God has every right to just let us all die out. But in His mercy he has made a prevision that allows anyone that wants to live by His commandments to live and do not have to taste the legal punishment.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 15 by Blastcat]

1 no - unlawful actions should be dealt with justly
2 yes - it's fairly synonymous I think. If a law requires mercy it is possible the law was unjust. For instance cutting off a hand for stealing is unjust and we hope judges apply mercy. But unjust laws are simply wrong, they are not justice at all.
3 no - I don't see a connection.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 17 by 2timothy316]

God might be able to make a square circle but to accept this we have to accept that we have left reason behind.

Similarly if we cannot rationally conceive that justice and mercy are related it is only by lack of reason that we can claim that only in God's justice they are.

Do you agree?

God did not violate the law or become unjust in order to rescue us. He merely can and did pay the price for our sins. Justice was met. He showed mercy by choosing to act when he didn't have to and he acted because he is a God of love.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 18 by Wootah]



[center]
Getting to a definition of mercy and justice
Part two.[/center]

1. When you use the term "merciful", should we assume that you mean "unlawful"?
no - unlawful actions should be dealt with justly

It seems that you might think that merciful does not mean "unlawful"

2. When you use the term "merciful" should we assume you mean "unfair"?

2 yes - it's fairly synonymous I think. If a law requires mercy it is possible the law was unjust. For instance cutting off a hand for stealing is unjust and we hope judges apply mercy. But unjust laws are simply wrong, they are not justice at all.

It's interesting that you consider mercy unfair. I was sure you'd say no.

3. You didn't mention forgiveness.. is being merciful forgiving?

3 no - I don't see a connection.

Wow.. you don't?
Another surprise for me.

When I think "mercy" I think "forgiveness".

I can't say that I quite follow your moral reasoning.
If I may, I have more questions so that I can understand what you mean:

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Questions:

• 
  1. Is mercy something to be desired?
  
  2. Should mercy ever be exercised in a court of law?
  
  3. Should mercy ever be exercised by a god?
  
  4. HAS mercy been used by a god?
  
  5. Have you ever heard of mercy being synonymous with forgiveness?
  
  6.What does the Bible say about mercy?
  
  7.Do you see any benefits to yourself from using mercy?
  
  8.If someone was merciful to you, would you consider yourself to have been treated unfairly?
  
  9.is it better to be merciful or to punish?
  
  10. Why do you say that applying mercy has to be unfair?
  
  11. Do you think that showing mercy CAN be lawful?
  
  12. Oh by the way, you could save us a lot of time if you just went ahead and defined mercy and justice in a clear manner. Thanks.
  
  

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