Why Jesus?

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe anyone went to heaven before Jesus.

- Even for those do believe Elijah, Abraham and others died and went to heaven, What, if anything did HIS resurrection change?

- If Jesus' resurrection was just one of many righteous people going to heaven, would it be fair to say if there were no resurrection reported for him, nothing in the Christian message would be different?

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe anyone went to heaven before Jesus.

- Even for those do believe Elijah, Abraham and others died and went to heaven,

Where then, did Elijah go when he was taken up in the chariot of fire?
Why did Abraham make an appearance in Christ's parable of the rich man and Lazarus?
From Whence did Moses and Elijah appear with Christ during the Transfiguration?

What, if anything did HIS resurrection change?

Nothing perhaps, or perhaps the resurrection was a visible sign of YHVH's vindication of his life and ministry.

- If Jesus' resurrection was just one of many righteous people going to heaven, would it be fair to say if there were no resurrection reported for him, nothing in the Christian message would be different?

More emphasis, perhaps, on the teachings of Jesus regarding love of YHVH and of our fellow humans. More on his stated mission to "set the captives free" and "bring good news to the poor" and downtrodden. I.e, ushering in the decisive Jubilee known as the Kingdom of God. More emphasis on the Beattitudes and the Sermon on the Mount...instead of his manner of death and it's iimplications, or his manner of ascension.

But Paul says, "if Christ did not rise, then your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins".

How in the world does that follow? When Christ proclaimed the Father's mercy and the forgiveness of sins, before any talk of his "atoning death and resurrection".

Another one of Paul's non-seqiutors.

[JehovahsWitness]

Nothing perhaps

Are you not sure?

[Elijah John]

Nothing perhaps

Are you not sure?

I'm not sure because I'm not sure the resurrection even happened as described, or what manner of resurrection it was.

But as I consider Jesus teachings about how to relate to God and our fellow humans of primary importance....the resurrection is secondary. A "sign". A sign of what?

A sign or Jesus vindication by God, a seal of approval of his teaching and healing ministry.

And a demonstration that we too, can be raised.

A sign of legitimacy of Paul's blood atonement theology, however, it was not.

THAT was a theological afterthought. Paul's interpretation of the events.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 1 by JehovahsWitness]

What, if anything did HIS resurrection change?

In the Old Testament, only a few were mentioned to going to Heaven. In the New Testament, it is open to Jew as well as Gentile, so that all have hope. His resurrection didn't change God's position, it changed ours.

[McCulloch]

In the Old Testament, only a few were mentioned to going to Heaven. In the New Testament, it is open to Jew as well as Gentile, so that all have hope. His resurrection didn't change God's position, it changed ours.

Do I understand correctly? Before Jesus' resurrection, only a few Jews could get to heaven. But after the resurrection, both Jews and Gentiles could have a heavenly expectation. For the thousands of years before Jesus, God (who we are told loved the world) made no provision for human salvation except for one small ethnic group living at the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. But for the less than two thousand years since he has expanded his focus to include the rest of us.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 6 by McCulloch]

You know only a few Jews went to heaven, but do you know many gentiles went to heaven before Jesus came?

As a matter of fact, far more people went to heaven, minus Jews, before Christ than after -
Here are a few people who've gone to heaven, and would take you there if only you believe.

This doesn't include Ishtar and Tammuz, or Osiris and Isis.

Isn't that a lesson in religion?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 7 by Willum]

Hey Willum!!!

How do you know all that? What is your reference?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 8 by Peds nurse]

Seriously?
Which part are you having trouble with?
The one referenced in my previous post's link?
Or the one in the OP?

Sad, isn't it?
One of the premises of Christianity is that anyone can be saved, and that Jesus was the first to allow it.

But Jesus wasn't the firt to allow it - many gods came before him,doing the same miracles, making the same promises.
The Dark Ages burned and buried a lot of it - but history washes clean.

[Peds nurse]

In the Old Testament, only a few were mentioned to going to Heaven. In the New Testament, it is open to Jew as well as Gentile, so that all have hope. His resurrection didn't change God's position, it changed ours.

Do I understand correctly? Before Jesus' resurrection, only a few Jews could get to heaven. But after the resurrection, both Jews and Gentiles could have a heavenly expectation. For the thousands of years before Jesus, God (who we are told loved the world) made no provision for human salvation except for one small ethnic group living at the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. But for the less than two thousand years since he has expanded his focus to include the rest of us.

Hello McCulloch! So very, very, sorry for the delayed response.

In the beginning, it was meant that all would and could have a relationship with God. After sin entered the world, it separated us from God. In the OT, the atonement offered to reconcile our sins, was burnt offerings. Was not this the practice of the Jews? People could convert to being a Jew, but the rituals were what separated them apart from others that worshiped other God's. After the resurrection, both Jews and gentiles could have eternal life. The atonement for all sin was offered to everyone.