Did Paul make up the Resurrection story?

[polonius]

Paul wrote: 1 Corinthians 15:6 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters[a] at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.

The Greek word used in both passages is translated as “appeared� not “was seen.�

Original Word: ὀπτάνομαι (Strong’s Lexicon G3700) Definition: I appear, am seen (by), let myself be seen (by).
I. to look at, behold or to allow one's self to be seen, to appear

As in Matthew 17:3 “And, behold, there appeared (G3700) unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/what ... us-faq.htm

Let’s take a look.
1 Corinthians 15:3-8 says, "For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

First of all, the word Paul repeatedly uses is “appeared to� not “was seen by.� And, of course, Paul describes lots of visions, and “revelations.�

Now let’s look at the passage itself.

Paul was not himself a witness to what he described, and he is writing 20 years after the event to people (Corinthians) living over 800 miles from Jerusalem who would not have been witnesses either.

Jesus appearance would have been to Jews, Gentiles, Greeks, Romans, etc. the most marvelous event of their lives. The five hundred would have been expected to tell others, perhaps thousands, and yet with all this none left a written a record. Nor do any of the four Gospel writers make any reference to this event.

And Paul himself admits in 1 Corinthians 9 that:

"For though I am free with respect to all, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) so that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law) so that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, so that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that I might by all means save some. 23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, so that I may share in its blessings."

So Paul himself admits that he isn’t always honest and acts to make converts!

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]

I think any good prosecutor could poke holes in Paul's story.

Some scholars think that all of the Gospel accounts depend on Paul's testimony, as his letters pre-date their Gospels.

Could be....

Paul's motive? To establish his bona-fides as an apostle, as he was the only one who never met Christ "in the flesh".

Could be....

He certainly had motive, means and seemed to have opportunity.

Your demonstration, p.a, does raise doubt about Paul's credibility.

[marco]

As in Matthew 17:3 “And, behold, there appeared (G3700) unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

I have never understood how these worthy gentlemen were recognised. Did they have name tags?

Jesus appearance would have been to Jews, Gentiles, Greeks, Romans, etc. the most marvelous event of their lives. The five hundred would have been expected to tell others, perhaps thousands, and yet with all this none left a written a record. Nor do any of the four Gospel writers make any reference to this event.

Of course people of that time and place may have just accepted such things as we accept the appearance of an ice cream vendor without too much fuss. To us it is remarkable that the decaying corpse that was Lazarus returned to life and never bothered to tell posterity of his singular experience.

You make a good point in distinguishing between appeared and was seen. "Appeared" also means "seemed." And people reminiscing could certainly have pictured Jesus quite vividly, which in Paul's book might be taken that Jesus appeared to them. It happens to folk today as well.

[JehovahsWitness]

I have never understood how these worthy gentlemen were recognised. Did they have name tags?
.

Perhaps from what they said, they were discussing... or maybe vision are like dreams, where you simply "know" who is who. Have you never had a dream where you were talking to your uncle long dead, except he looked like a black Elvis and spoke exactly like Margaret Thatcher?


Me neither...lol


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[marco]

I have never understood how these worthy gentlemen were recognised. Did they have name tags?
.

Perhaps from what they said, they were discussing... or maybe vision are like dreams, where you simply "know" who is who.

Sadly the discussion topic wasn't reported - just the names. Perhaps Jesus, in saying hello to them, let their identities slip. Or there may have been a celestial announcement to introduce each one. Who knows?

It doesn't give one confidence in accepting the literal truth of the resurrection.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 5 by marco]

Did you never dream you were flying? Totally great view - and then you're like (in the dream) hey, I can't fly... then you start falling... ) I remember dreaming in French - - anyway, in this dream I'm talking to my mother and in the dream I'm like "Attend, tu ne parle pas français, ça doit etre un reve"...

The mind is our biggest trip!

JW

[Peds nurse]

Paul wrote: 1 Corinthians 15:6 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters[a] at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died.

The Greek word used in both passages is translated as “appeared� not “was seen.�

Original Word: ὀπτάνομαι (Strong’s Lexicon G3700) Definition: I appear, am seen (by), let myself be seen (by).
I. to look at, behold or to allow one's self to be seen, to appear

As in Matthew 17:3 “And, behold, there appeared (G3700) unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/what ... us-faq.htm

Let’s take a look.
1 Corinthians 15:3-8 says, "For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

First of all, the word Paul repeatedly uses is “appeared to� not “was seen by.� And, of course, Paul describes lots of visions, and “revelations.�

Hello Polonius! I hope this finds you well!

It seems to me that appear and seen can be used interchangeably. What is seen has to have an appearance, or one would not be able to see it in the first place.

Now let’s look at the passage itself.

Paul was not himself a witness to what he described, and he is writing 20 years after the event to people (Corinthians) living over 800 miles from Jerusalem who would not have been witnesses either.

Jesus appearance would have been to Jews, Gentiles, Greeks, Romans, etc. the most marvelous event of their lives. The five hundred would have been expected to tell others, perhaps thousands, and yet with all this none left a written a record. Nor do any of the four Gospel writers make any reference to this event.

Paul was witness to Jesus on the road to Damascus, which was the pivotal moment that he was converted to Christianity. Just because there isn't a written record of those 500 people seeing Jesus, from their own perspective, matters very little. Many did not write or read, and the best communication of an important encounter, was the word of mouth, by their own personal testimony. Isn't that the way it is in our lives too? Do we write about what we have witnessed that has changed the coarse of our lives, or do we voice what we are excited about to the people closest to us?

And Paul himself admits in 1 Corinthians 9 that:

"For though I am free with respect to all, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) so that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law) so that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, so that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that I might by all means save some. 23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, so that I may share in its blessings."

So Paul himself admits that he isn’t always honest and acts to make converts!

Could this not also mean that Paul meets people where they are? He talks to them in a way that they might see Christ through Him, in all circumstances? I would not talk to a physician the same way I talk to my children because my relationship with them is different, but also their understanding is different. It doesn't mean that he isn't honest, but rather he talks so they understand.

[marco]

Did you never dream you were flying? Totally great view - and then you're like (in the dream) hey, I can't fly... then you start falling... ) I remember dreaming in French - - anyway, in this dream I'm talking to my mother and in the dream I'm like "Attend, tu ne parle pas français, ça doit etre un reve"...

The mind is our biggest trip!

You surprise me. Dreams can be replacements for miracles; what was testified in the gospel pages can be taken as descriptions of dreams. I'm not opposed to this view. Paul may have been a dreamer like John Lennon.

( Incidentally, if you ever write to mum in French use the correct second person singular form, "parles." and reve is rêve if we are thirsting for accuracy. But good story! I have dreamt of flying and falling many times, as it happens.)

[JehovahsWitness]

You surprise me.

Thank you. I think that the mind is a wonderful thing, it can never be under estimated.

Have a most excellent week

JW

[polonius]

Peds nurse posted:

Paul was witness to Jesus on the road to Damascus, which was the pivotal moment that he was converted to Christianity. Just because there isn't a written record of those 500 people seeing Jesus, from their own perspective, matters very little. Many did not write or read, and the best communication of an important encounter, was the word of mouth, by their own personal testimony. Isn't that the way it is in our lives too? Do we write about what we have witnessed that has changed the coarse of our lives, or do we voice what we are excited about to the people closest to us?

RESPONSES:

1. Paul never reports having had a Damascus experience. Most probably because Paul didn't, and Luke just made it up . (Luke provided three versions. What does that tell you?)

2. Of those in Jerusalem including Romans, Greeks, and many educated Jews as well as the thousands of their acquaintances they would have told if it had actually occurred, none wrote anything down. More importantly, none of the four gospel writers ever reported it.

3." Do we write about what we have witnessed that has changed the course of our lives?"

I think you will find that of the 8 million people in New York on 9/11, very many wrote something about it. Especially the responders.

In the case of Jesus the first man rising from the dead, are we really to believe that none of the witnesses or those they would have told, wrote anything, not even the Evangelists?