Who are "God's people"?

[Elijah John]

On another thread, JW said this:

Just to clarify, when I speak about "his people" I am refering ONLY to Jehovah's Witnesses.

For debate...who are God's (his) people?

All believers?

All people of good will?

Or just Jehovah's Witnesses.

If others are not God's people, whose people are they?

Do JW's have copyrights to the title "God's people?

If JW is making a claim that only JW's are "God's people" is this a good witnesss to the expansive love of God?

Or is this just another example of an "us only" mindset..

[JehovahsWitness]

What is JW insinuating.

I was not "insinuating" anything, I was saying outright that we Jehovah's Witnesses believe that our religious organization is the only one that represents true Christianity on this planet at the present time. This is an integral part of our belief system (see official statement below).

click on picture to enlarge


Source: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -religion/

Let me know if I wasn't clear enough.


If others are not God's people, whose people are they?

They still "belong" to God, in the sense that He is the sovereign of the univers and the Creator of everyone, but we believe that non-witnesses are not part of the special spiritual nation under Christ's leadership that constitute the True Christian organization today. They are outside of that, alienated from the True God and part of Satan's system Not meaning that they are "satanic" or "demonic" in any way, but that they are part of the religious, commercial and political "world" controlled ultimately we believe by Satan the Devil - see 2 Cor 4:4.


If JW is making a claim that only JW's are "God's people" is this a good witnesss to the expansive love of God?

Yes, we believe so, absolutely! The expansive nature of his love is evident in that he sent his beloved son to die for the whole world (see John 3:16). This opened the way for anyone, regardless of colour, nation, or language to come under the spiritual protection of his organization and learn what they have to do to gain everlasting life. Previous to this Jehovah had one special nation, the nation of Israel, full worship was not open to non-Israelites. Such a stage was necessary but did not fully reflect the "expansive love of God" that he has for all people.

Following his death and resurrection, Jesus communicated his desire that his disciples do everything in their power to invite others into the Christian congregation. Jehovah's Witnesses continue that legacy, not by our own merit but as a reflection of the love of God extended to all people of good will wherever they may be on this planet.

JW




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[Elijah John]

What is JW insinuating.

I was not "insinuating" anything, I was saying outright that we Jehovah's Witnesses believe that our religious organization is the only one that represents true Christianity on this planet at the present time. This is an integral part of our belief system (see official statement below).

click on picture to enlarge


Source: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -religion/

Let me know if I wasn't clear enough.


If others are not God's people, whose people are they?

They still "belong" to God, in the sense that He is the sovereign of the univers and the Creator of everyone, but we believe that non-witnesses are not part of the special spiritual nation under Christ's leadership that constitute the True Christian organization today. They are outside of that, alienated from the True God and part of Satan's system.


JW

So, in effect, isn't that the same as calling them Satan's children? Part of Satan's system?

Doesn't that betray a certain amount of contempt for non-Witnesses?

Thanks for the clarification anyway, and for stepping up to the plate. Still,your explanation seems to amount to a disctinction without a difference.

As to your links, images and videos, I will not be following them. Smacks of propaganda to me.

[JehovahsWitness]

So, in effect, isn't that the same as calling them Satan's children? Part of Satan's system?

No, please read the full post above . I believe I explained myself clearly but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Regards,

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 3 by Elijah John]


QUESTION: Does the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses believe their religion is true mean they feel or display contempt for non-Witnesses?

No, absolutely not! Jehovah's Witnesses take very seriously the command to love people and not carry any hatred even in their hearts. Many Jehovah's Witnesses are married to non-witnesses and display love and respect in this most intimate of unions and we all have non-witnesses friends and family to whom we are happy to show love to. We are also known in disaster relief circles as often being the first on hand to help not only our own brothers and sisters but the our local community when disaster strikes and we see our volunteer outreach work, as an expression of love, visiting our neighbours with "good news" of good things to come!

Jesus showed deep love and compassion for people, especially those physically or spiritually hungry or mislead. We sincerely believe that non-witnesses are spiritually mislead, through absolutely no fault of their own. Indeed the fact that all Jehovah's Witnesses will readily admit they themselves were once in spiritual darkness reflect how they feel about non-witnesses, namely that we are in no way superior or even different from non-witnesses but that (byGod's grace) we have been given the opportunity to learn the truth about Him and as Jesus said, it is that, not any merit on their part that has set them free.


I recall you asking a similar question some time ago, here is the link to my answer in case you want to refer to it.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 144#799144

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[Willum]

You know I am forced to invoke the ant mound in Manitoba analogy.

Are you aware there are ant mounds in Manitoba that proclaim they are Elijah John's chosen ants. Coincidently there are another mound of ants a short distance away, who claim they are your chosen ants, and some day you will return to save them from their oppressor ants.

So, it is obvious to me that God is much farther above you, than you are above the ants (I hope I can say this without offense,) so may I ask, which one of them are your chosen ants?

How do you distinguish?
Which ants are more loyal, are the most true to your doctrine?

Alright you get what I am saying.

What are the answers to these questions?

Buut, do you think an ant mound that has been worshiping you for thousands of years is more likely to be favored by you than one that has been around since the 1870s?

[OnceConvinced]

For debate...who are God's (his) people?

Well in the OT, it tells us it was the Israelites.
In the NT is tell us that it's anyone who is a believer. (with the expectation that they have repented and are willing to follow Christ.)

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Or just Jehovah's Witnesses.

Most definitely not. There were no Jehovah's witnesses in Paul's time. His letters were addressed to the Churches there at the time and none of those were JW churches.

We have to realise that Jesus was an inclusive type of guy not an exclusive one. He welcomed everyone, just as long as they came as children. In John 3:16 is says WHOSOEVER BELIEVES shall not perish but have everlasting life. This is not just suggesting a select few who will appear hundreds of years into the future. Both Paul and Jesus were speaking to people who were there AT THE TIME.

Do JW's have copyrights to the title "God's people?

No more than any other believer.

If JW is making a claim that only JW's are "God's people" is this a good witnesss to the expansive love of God?

This would not show a loving god but an exclusive god. However the bible tells us that God is unwilling that anyone should perish. All one has to do is repent and acknowledge Jesus Christ. There is nothing in the bible that even insinuates they should be part of some elite group that would only crop up in the 1900s.

Or is this just another example of an ugly "us only" mindset..

As far as I can see that is all it is. That is not a Christ mindset. That is a mindset of men. Ones who want to appear elite.

This mindset should be enough for anyone to know that they do no represent Jesus who loved everyone and accepted everyone, just as long as they were willing to follow him.

[onewithhim]

On another thread, JW said this:

Just to clarify, when I speak about "his people" I am refering ONLY to Jehovah's Witnesses.

For debate...who are God's (his) people?

All believers?

All people of good will?

Or just Jehovah's Witnesses.

If others are not God's people, whose people are they?

What is JW insinuating. Please, JW step up to the plate.

Do JW's have copyrights to the title "God's people?

If JW is making a claim that only JW's are "God's people" is this a good witnesss to the expansive love of God?

Or is this just another example of an ugly "us only" mindset..

Who are God's people? There are only two masters.....God or the Devil. If we do not serve God we are advancing the interests of the Devil. The bible says that God's people are specifically those that are obedient concerning the Christ, which would be God's will (for them to be obedient). ("Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the temporary residents scattered about...to those chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, with sanctification by the spirit, for the purpose of being obedient and sprinkled with the blood of Jesus Christ; You are a 'chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies' of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. For you were once not a people, but now you are God's people." I Peter 1:1; 2:9,10)

So God's people are narrowed down to those who are obedient concerning the Christ. Then it is up to each person to determine for himself who are "obedient concerning the Christ." Wouldn't that mean obeying Jesus' teachings? OK, yes, that would be necessary to be one of God's people, according to Peter. So we must discern who are following Christ's teachings. That is not particularly difficult, though most people make excuses for why they don't follow Christ's teachings when they find out what they are.

God's people "follow in Christ's steps".....they act as he acted. (I Peter 2:21) We can read the Gospel accounts and find out what he did and what he believed. We can adjust our own conduct to his conduct, and seek out others of like mind. Why don't more people do this? Because they don't want to be different from what their family members of friends believe and the way they live.

.

[onewithhim]

You know I am forced to invoke the ant mound in Manitoba analogy.

Are you aware there are ant mounds in Manitoba that proclaim they are Elijah John's chosen ants. Coincidently there are another mound of ants a short distance away, who claim they are your chosen ants, and some day you will return to save them from their oppressor ants.

So, it is obvious to me that God is much farther above you, than you are above the ants (I hope I can say this without offense,) so may I ask, which one of them are your chosen ants?

How do you distinguish?
Which ants are more loyal, are the most true to your doctrine?

Alright you get what I am saying.

What are the answers to these questions?

Buut, do you think an ant mound that has been worshiping you for thousands of years is more likely to be favored by you than one that has been around since the 1870s?

Not if that ant mound really has NOT been worshiping the true God. The Bible says that the true sons of the Kingdom will be revealed in the LAST DAYS, or, as Jesus said in Matthew chapter 13, the HARVEST time. The ant mound that has been dominant for 2,000 years is a fake representative of God's Kingdom, just like the weeds in the parable in Matthew 13.

(See also Daniel 12:4,9,10)

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 8 by onewithhim]

People have different interpretations with regard to Jesus teaching. Or are you saying that only those who believe like your group are actually following Jesus teaching?

Jesus, for example, never taught folks to abstain from birthday celebrations. Nor did he ever teach against blood transfusions.

And how bout those who consider Jesus an apostate? But are chosen by covenant to be His (Jehovah's) people? Doesn't salvation "come from the Jews" as the Evangelist John teaches?

Are you saying Jews are no longer Jehovah's people because they rejected Jesus?

That is called "replacement theology", and is considered arrogant and divisive.

And besides, where Jesus teachings overlap with those of Judaism, they are not really rejecting Jesus....in Spirit. Jesus exmplifies what's best about Judaism, in effect, he personifies Judaism.