Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

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polonius
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Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Post #1

Post by polonius »

Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't. So, what's the claim now?

www.britannica.com/topic/Jehovahs-Witnesses

The Adventist movement emerged in the 1830s around the predictions of William Miller, who proclaimed that Jesus Christ would return in 1843 or 1844.

When Christ did not return as Miller prophecied, Adventists divided into a number of factions.

During the 1870s, Charles Taze Russell established himself as an independent and controversial Adventist teacher.

He rejected belief in hell as a place of eternal torment and adopted a non-Trinitarian theology that denied the divinity of Jesus. He also interpreted the Second Coming in accordance with the literal translation of the original Greek term, parousia (“presence�), suggesting that Christ would come as an invisible presence and that the Parousia, or “Millennial Dawn,� already had occurred, in 1874.

The coming of Christ’s invisible presence signaled the end of the current order of society and would be followed by his visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth in 1914.

Although the kingdom did not come, Russell’s teachings motivated a number of volunteers to circulate his many books and pamphlets and a periodical, The Watchtower, and to recalculate the time of the Parousia.

So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?

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Re: Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote:
There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't.
Yes it did. The Parousia has been occuring invisibly since 1914. Only men and women of faith can discern this.
polonius.advice wrote:So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?
Jesus said nobody would be able to answer this question. The "day and hour" for Christ's return has not been revealed in scripture.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS.

Further reading: 1914—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/


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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

polonius
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Mark wrote first, did he get it wrong?

Post #3

Post by polonius »

Mark 9:1

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Paul, 1 Thes 4 15-17 " For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever."

So evidently Jesus expected to return by the end of the first century.

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Re: Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Post #4

Post by polonius »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
polonius.advice wrote: Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't.
Yes it did. The Parousia has been occuring invisibly since 1914. Only men and women of faith can discern this.
polonius.advice wrote:So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?
Jesus said nobody would be able to answer this question. The "day and hour" for Christ's return has not been revealed in scripture.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS.
RESPONSE: Are you then contradicting Charles Taze Russell. the JW's founder?

The coming of Christ’s invisible presence signaled the end of the current order of society and would be followed by his visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth in 1914.

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Re: Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote:RESPONSE: Are you then contradicting Charles Taze Russell.
Yes I am.

Russell was wrong about some things and correct about others. Jehovah's Witnesses have no problem pointing out where Russell was wrong. He was right about 1914 (see above) but wrong on other details.



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Further Reading: Blog on Charles Russell
http://pastorrussell.blogspot.fr/

DOCU-DRAMA Charles Russell & Origins of the modern day organization of JW
[youtube][/youtube]


This is not one of my posts but I wish it were...It's by historia and I'm going to link to it because it's such an excellent post on the subject of CTR
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 342#778342
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #6

Post by polonius »

JW posted:

"Russell was wrong about some things and correct about others. Jehovah's Witnesses have no problem pointing out where Russell was wrong. He was right about 1914 (see above) but wrong on other things."
QUESTION: Since you tell us that Christ returned invisibly in 1914, how did anyone prove Russel was right? ;)

And are you now expecting us to believe that although Jesus has been here for over 100 years, he's still invisible?
:shock:

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Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 6 by polonius.advice]

You can believe what you like, I'm just explaining what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. We don't feel the need to "prove Russell right or wrong" we believe he was right about some things. Such as that Christ's rule began in 1914.

As for Christ ruling invisibly from heaven, faith is believing what cannot be seen. For example we believing God has been ruling as the supreme sovereign of the universe invisibly in heaven for billions of years. Another invisible thing we believe nonetheless.


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“We are walking by faith, not by sight.�—2 CORINTHIANS 5:7
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Post #8

Post by polonius »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
polonius.advice wrote:
There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't.
Yes it did. The Parousia has been occuring invisibly since 1914. Only men and women of faith can discern this.
polonius.advice wrote:So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?
Jesus said nobody would be able to answer this question. The "day and hour" for Christ's return has not been revealed in scripture.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS.

RESPONSE:

The two parts of your argument are contradictory.

JW first posted
Yes it did. The Parousia has been occurring invisibly since 1914. Only men and women of faith can discern this.
Then JW posted:
Jesus said nobody would be able to answer this question. The "day and hour" for Christ's return has not been revealed in scripture.
But if Jesus returned in 1914 the Jehovah Witness faithful know the answer, don't they?

And while Jesus claimed that no one could know the "day and hour" of his return, according to the gospel writers it would be during the lifetime of Jesus' generation.

Actually, three gospels support that Jesus' claim regarding the parousia:

Mark 9:1
Then Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrives with power."

Matthew 16:28 (Douay-Rheims Bible)
Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Luke 9:27 (New Revised Standard Version) (NRSV)
27 But truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.�
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Re: Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote:The two parts of your argument are contradictory.
Do you know the difference between the "parousia" and Christ's return (erkomai)? If you do you will know that there is no contradiction in what I said.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote: Jesus claimed that no one could know the "day and hour" of his return, according to the gospel writers it would be during the lifetime of Jesus' generation.
That is not a Jehovah's Witness interpretation. We interpret the bible passages differently.

JW



I have posted on this topic, perhaps you missed the post.


Jehovah's Witnesses interpretation of "this generation"
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 219#752219
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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