Was the Messiah supposed to have been..

[Elijah John]

Was the Messiah supposed to have been "God incarnate"?

Please support your answers from the "Old" Testament.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

people today don't know what messiah meant to first century Jews.

[dio9]

The Messiah was expected to restore sovereignty to Israel. Factually speaking David Ben Gurion the primary founder of the state of modern Israel was the long awaited Messiah. The Messiah is the one who does it. But surely he couldn't have done it without a lot of sacrifice and the support of God.

[onewithhim]

There is no place in the O.T. that indicates that the Messiah would be "God incarnate." I would like to see where some people get that idea. Can we have any ideas about that from folks who are inclined to believe such?

[Faber]

Was the Messiah supposed to have been "God incarnate"?

Please support your answers from the "Old" Testament.

1. Yes

2a. The Jews knew that God alone knew the hearts of all (1 Kings 8:39) and yet the Lord Jesus possesses this same knowledge (Isaiah 11:3-4). This demonstrates His omniscience for as Edward J. Young insightfully observes:
His judgments will not be based upon the ordinary sources of information to men, namely, what men see and what they hear. Such means, the eyes and the ears, can bring at best but an outward impression. For absolute justice, there must be absolute knowledge, one that cannot be derived merely by these two regular and ordinary sources of information (The Book of Isaiah, Volume 1, page 384).

Absolute justice requires absolute knowledge.
Absolute knowledge = omniscience


2b. That Daniel 7:14 teaches that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of 'pelach' (LXX: latreu�) demonstrates His Supreme Deity.
viewtopic.php?t=32491

[onewithhim]

Was the Messiah supposed to have been "God incarnate"?

Please support your answers from the "Old" Testament.

1. Yes

2a. The Jews knew that God alone knew the hearts of all (1 Kings 8:39) and yet the Lord Jesus possesses this same knowledge (Isaiah 11:3-4). This demonstrates His omniscience for as Edward J. Young insightfully observes:
His judgments will not be based upon the ordinary sources of information to men, namely, what men see and what they hear. Such means, the eyes and the ears, can bring at best but an outward impression. For absolute justice, there must be absolute knowledge, one that cannot be derived merely by these two regular and ordinary sources of information (The Book of Isaiah, Volume 1, page 384).

Absolute justice requires absolute knowledge.
Absolute knowledge = omniscience


2b. That Daniel 7:14 teaches that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of 'pelach' (LXX: latreu�) demonstrates His Supreme Deity.
viewtopic.php?t=32491

Nonsense. Jesus was given knowledge and power BY his Father Jehovah. Whatever Jesus knew, he knew because Jehovah gave him the knowledge. That is your OPINION, based on other men's opinions, that "absolute justice requires absolute knowledge" and that that "absolute knowledge equals omniscience." No scripture will support that. But Scripture supports the fact that Jesus gets his knowledge and his power FROM JEHOVAH. Absolute justice can be achieved even if Jesus doesn't have absolute or all-encompassing knowledge. His Father has this kind of knowledge, and bestows enough onto His Son to see that justice is accomplished.

"A twig will grow out of the stump of Jesse [David's father], and a sprout from his roots will bear fruit [the Messiah]. And the spirit of Jehovah will settle upon him, the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel and of mightiness, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah. And he will find delight in the fear of Jehovah. He will not judge by what appears to his eyes, nor reprove simply according to what his ears hear. He will judge the lowly with fairness, and with uprightness he will give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth." (Isaiah 11:1-4a)

Are you able to discern that the Messiah will be able to know and understand and act with justice because the spirit of Jehovah settles on him?

Thus, it is clear that Jesus was not "God incarnate," but God GAVE him whatever power that he had and will ever have.

[Faber]

Was the Messiah supposed to have been "God incarnate"?

Please support your answers from the "Old" Testament.

1. Yes

2a. The Jews knew that God alone knew the hearts of all (1 Kings 8:39) and yet the Lord Jesus possesses this same knowledge (Isaiah 11:3-4). This demonstrates His omniscience for as Edward J. Young insightfully observes:
His judgments will not be based upon the ordinary sources of information to men, namely, what men see and what they hear. Such means, the eyes and the ears, can bring at best but an outward impression. For absolute justice, there must be absolute knowledge, one that cannot be derived merely by these two regular and ordinary sources of information (The Book of Isaiah, Volume 1, page 384).

Absolute justice requires absolute knowledge.
Absolute knowledge = omniscience


2b. That Daniel 7:14 teaches that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of 'pelach' (LXX: latreu�) demonstrates His Supreme Deity.
viewtopic.php?t=32491

Nonsense. Jesus was given knowledge and power BY his Father Jehovah.

Thus your "god" created another "god."

[Elijah John]

Was the Messiah supposed to have been "God incarnate"?

Please support your answers from the "Old" Testament.

1. Yes

2a. The Jews knew that God alone knew the hearts of all (1 Kings 8:39) and yet the Lord Jesus possesses this same knowledge (Isaiah 11:3-4). This demonstrates His omniscience for as Edward J. Young insightfully observes:
His judgments will not be based upon the ordinary sources of information to men, namely, what men see and what they hear. Such means, the eyes and the ears, can bring at best but an outward impression. For absolute justice, there must be absolute knowledge, one that cannot be derived merely by these two regular and ordinary sources of information (The Book of Isaiah, Volume 1, page 384).

Absolute justice requires absolute knowledge.
Absolute knowledge = omniscience


2b. That Daniel 7:14 teaches that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of 'pelach' (LXX: latreu�) demonstrates His Supreme Deity.
viewtopic.php?t=32491

Nonsense. Jesus was given knowledge and power BY his Father Jehovah.

Thus your "god" created another "god."

The prophets were also given knowledge by Father Jehovah, does that make them "gods"?

Every teacher gives knowledge, doesn't make them Creators.

Also, Jesus was not omniscient. There were things he did not know. Like scientific advancements, or else why wouldn't he have shared that knowledge with regular humans?

And even of the exact time of his return, he said "only the Father knows".

[Faber]

Other prophets were given knowledge but they never possessed all knowledge.

Concerning Matthew 24:36 the Lord Jesus spoke only the words the Father gave Him to speak (John 12:49; cf. Isaiah 50:4). The Father did not want the Lord Jesus to disclose the time of His return at that moment.

The fact that the Lord Jesus is rendered worship in praise of His wisdom proves He is omniscient for it is His attribute.
viewtopic.php?t=32486

[onewithhim]

Other prophets were given knowledge but they never possessed all knowledge.

Concerning Matthew 24:36 the Lord Jesus spoke only the words the Father gave Him to speak (John 12:49; cf. Isaiah 50:4). The Father did not want the Lord Jesus to disclose the time of His return at that moment.

The fact that the Lord Jesus is rendered worship in praise of His wisdom proves He is omniscient for it is His attribute.
viewtopic.php?t=32486

I don't think Jesus would have lied. He said that NO ONE knew the day or hour but the Father. That included himself.