Isn't it obvious there should be no hell?

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The Transcended Omniverse
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Isn't it obvious there should be no hell?

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Post by The Transcended Omniverse »

I think it is quite obvious that there should be no concept of original sin where sinners are condemned to hell to suffer for eternity. I am going to explain why. It is no different than how it is quite obvious that what Hitler did to the Jews was wrong and sadistic. If you just use your gut moral instinct, then it will become quite obvious to you that what Hitler did was wrong and sadistic. However, if you were indoctrinated with some sort of teaching that taught you that what Hitler did was right and you believed this, then you would have been led away from your very morality as a human being towards a false and cruel teaching.

This false and cruel teaching would have changed your sense of morality over towards a cruel and unrighteous moral standard that you have been fooled into thinking was a righteous moral standard. When it comes to fundamentalist Christianity and other religions that teach a God who condemns even kind and respectful family members to hell for being sinners, then this is the same scenario. Anybody who believes that an all loving and all just God would do that would have been led astray from their sense of righteous morality towards a new moral standard that is unrighteous, cruel, and is a moral standard that they have been fooled into thinking is an all loving, all just, and righteous moral standard.

Just from using my own gut moral instinct, I can obviously see how such a God would be a cruel and sadistic God just as how I can use my gut moral instinct in seeing how Hitler was cruel and sadistic as well. There are many kind people out in this world who would also agree with me as well. This says a lot here. This clearly says here that religions such as fundamentalist Christianity twist our sense of morality to where we believe that the cruel and unrighteous acts of a morally atrocious God are instead righteous and holy acts of an all loving and all just God. Sinners, including kind people, are condemned on judgment day by this type of God, they go to hell to suffer for eternity, and God never chooses to get them out and put them someplace else.

This, to me, is obviously a worse treatment than even Hitler. If only people would just use their gut moral instinct, focus on that, and forget all of the false and cruel teachings they were taught, then they will obviously see how the moral standard set forth by these types of religious Gods and figures is a cruel, unjust, and morally atrocious moral standard regardless of how many loving and just acts these types of Gods have performed. These Gods performing loving and just acts does not justify their cruel and morally atrocious acts no matter how you try to justify it. The reason why I am not a fundamentalist Christian is because of the very fact that I have used my gut moral instinct. However, other people sacrifice their gut moral instinct and believe in false teachings.

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ttruscott
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Re: Isn't it obvious there should be no hell?

Post #61

Post by ttruscott »

This is quite interesting...
Tired of the Nonsense wrote:True free will is nowhere promised, because no such condition is possible.
I do agree if I only consider our earthly existence due to dna, culture etc. But since our lack of a free will contradicts what we think we know about GOD and HIS morals, something must give. For you it is the Christian concept of a GOD. For me it is the claim no free will is possible.
You keep insisting that God gave us free will. Free will is a desperately important part of Christian doctrine. And yet the Bible makes no such promise.
Your perseverance on the idea of the necessity of GOD promising us a free will before we can have it is strange to me. We have lots of things that were never promised but just are.
Christians claim that our free will is an obvious fact.
Calvinism rejects free will totally in favour of a hard determinism based on HIS total sovereignty. I contend for our free will as a theological necessity once the revelations found in the Bible are accepted.
And yet if no God existed to begin with, free will would simply be an undeniable fact of nature.
Yet you just claimed "no such condition is possible"...so I am confused.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Isn't it obvious there should be no hell?

Post #62

Post by Bust Nak »

ttruscott wrote: And my answer must stand as I said it before: there are indeed billions of billions of people, the holy angels, and the Trinity, who have a free will that never chose to sin nor will ever do so, by the expression of that free will. You are calling for that which already exists as if it does not exist and is something new.
No, you are missing my point - I are calling for that which already exists as if it is logically possible, because it is trivial that if something exist then it is logically possible. It is a premise in my proof against God, I am relying on your contention that there are billions and billions of holy angels, who never chose to sin nor will ever do so, by the expression of that free will. You are not counter what I said, you are affirming it.
That all folk did not choose to be sinless and holy is the point of a FREE will; they are FREE to reject good for an evil they think is better.
And that right there, is another one of my premise. Along with the premise that God has the ability create anything other than the logically impossible, we can rule out your thesis as a logical contradictory.

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