Eternal Hell

[amortalman]

I have two questions primarily for Christians.

1) If your brand of religion teaches that unbelievers will be judged by God and cast into Hell and the Lake of Fire for eternity to suffer there with no possibility of death or escape, is this action by God a just punishment, and why?

2) The second question is purely hypothetical and reaches way out there. If your God gave you permission to do as you please concerning eternal Hell, to keep it, or to abolish it in favor of, say, annihilation, would you keep it or do away with it?

NOTE: In regards to question number one I'm thinking about the story told by Jesus of the rich man and Lazarus found in Luke chapter 16. The Lake of Fire is mentioned in Revelation 20:10-15 and 21:8.

To me, an eternity of suffering in Hell defies logic and any sense of compassion what-so-ever. During my years as a Christian in an evangelical church, I've heard many preachers preface a sermon on Hell by saying they don't like to talk about it and don't like the concept of it but they must preach it because that's what the Bible teaches. I was once a part of a Biblical teaching program for children 2nd through 6th grade. I can only imagine the nightmares some of them had after being told that without Jesus they would go to Hell forever. Someone might argue that it's better that than to go to Hell. But does the fear tactic really work, and if it does, is that the best way, to scare the hell out of them?

In my understanding of the Bible, and what is being taught to millions of people in evangelical churches around the world, there are two kinds of people who will be cast into Hell. Those who have never heard the gospel and those how have rejected the gospel after having heard it. According to that teaching, there are countless millions of poor souls being tormented in Hell right now because they never had an opportunity to hear about Christ. Furthermore, there are hundreds if not thousands that are dying every day and going to Hell for lack of an opportunity to decide. Is that just?

Finally, I'm hopeful that the second question will cut to the Christians heart concerning the doctrine of Hell and reveal the insanity of it. To me, someone who would keep Hell if given the chance to abolish it is a Sadist of the worse kind. But then again, if a Christian says that he would do away with Hell is he demonstrating that he is more merciful than God?

What say you?

[Left Site]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

The existence of hell is one of the best indications that God is loving.

His willingness to love his children by keeping them separate from the Devil's children demonstrates that love.

The eternity of hell is explained to my mind by the fact God is a God of life. We were created to live forever. Many other religions believe their God has the right to destroy even his children. But what security is there in that?

We all practise hell all the time. Aren't there people that you don't like or don't want to associate with? Don't we all cast people out of our lives?

A Christian or any person arguing against hell is no different to a criminal arguing against prison.

So what parts of what I said can you agree with? Take my first sentence. Would we call a parent loving to put their child with a pedophile or a Shepard to put a lamb with the wolf. Can you see how normal it is and loving it is in the everyday to try to separate good from bad?

A God who would roast somebody in a fire forever with no hope for them of it ever ending would be a God of maniacal and sadistic traits. The furthest thing from love. Would you really think that you would be grateful for being allowed to live only to be in utter agony for every second of your existence? Prison and "hell" cannot be compared together. The idea of a fiery hell involves insanity, and is downright blasphemous against God.

It is necessary to separate the good from the bad. This idea does not necessitate torturing someone for an eternity.

Our security is to know that as long as we remain lovers of God and of righteousness, we are securely in His arms. I don't see how hell-fire gives anyone any sense of security.

To claim God would literally torment anyone forever makes man out to be more righteous than God. For, man knows it would be sadistic to torment even a vicious animal.

And it doesn't work to claim they did it to themselves against God's wishes, for, man has enough decency in his nature to put a suffering animal out of it's misery. Therefore that yet makes man out to be more righteous than God. That is exactly what the evil one (the devil Satan) wants us to do, that is, portray ourselves as more righteous than God, that following Satan's example.

[ttruscott]

A God who would roast somebody in a fire forever with no hope for them of it ever ending would be a God of maniacal and sadistic traits.

While the roasting fire is metaphorical for their distress, it is nevertheless only a non-loving GOD who would allow eternally evil people to torment HIS holy Church for all eternity...and that they are not eternal is not proven, only offered as one interpretation.

Knowing Hebrew, Greek and doctrine is not to know GOD as the Pharisees learned.

[ttruscott]

To claim God would literally torment anyone forever makes man out to be more righteous than God. For, man knows it would be sadistic to torment even a vicious animal.

And it doesn't work to claim they did it to themselves against God's wishes, for, man has enough decency in his nature to put a suffering animal out of it's misery. Therefore that yet makes man out to be more righteous than God. That is exactly what the evil one (the devil Satan) wants us to do, that is, portray ourselves as more righteous than God, that following Satan's example.

OR:
Satan wants us to keep rejecting the judgement as sadistic torment for no reason to ensure that the good seed never come to maturity in holiness, that is, commitment to HIS ideals and plans.

Commitment to a message of love that denies the judgment may be Satan's way to make us feel that we are superior to GOD's plans for judgement and then we would stay in our sins IF there was indeed a good reason for the GOD who is love to banish eternally evil people from HIS created reality to cleanse it from all evil.

[Left Site]

To claim God would literally torment anyone forever makes man out to be more righteous than God. For, man knows it would be sadistic to torment even a vicious animal.

And it doesn't work to claim they did it to themselves against God's wishes, for, man has enough decency in his nature to put a suffering animal out of it's misery. Therefore that yet makes man out to be more righteous than God. That is exactly what the evil one (the devil Satan) wants us to do, that is, portray ourselves as more righteous than God, that following Satan's example.

OR:
Satan wants us to keep rejecting the judgement as sadistic torment for no reason to ensure that the good seed never come to maturity in holiness, that is, commitment to HIS ideals and plans.

Commitment to a message of love that denies the judgment may be Satan's way to make us feel that we are superior to GOD's plans for judgement and then we would stay in our sins IF there was indeed a good reason for the GOD who is love to banish eternally evil people from HIS created reality to cleanse it from all evil.

It wouldn't say much good about me if I had to have a threat like eternal torment to make me willing to let go of the old man and put on the new.

Love is the only acceptable reason for wanting to serve and be pleasing to God.

But if you feel you need to defend that sow's ear called hell, that is your business.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 25 by tam]

Hello, Tam.

According to what I was taught as a Christian, you are absolutely right that Hell and The Lake of Fire are two different places. Evangelicals believe that Hell is the holding place for all who die apart from Christ until the Great White Throne judgment at the end of the world at which time the lost will be cast into the permanent "Hell", the Lake of Fire. Hell is a place of torment, the abode of the spiritually dead i.e. the rich man in Luke 16. There are probably as many evangelicals who do not believe this is a parable as there are who do. But does it matter? A parable is a story that reflects reality. What Jesus himself is teaching here is that Hell is a place of extreme suffering. If not my literal fire then by something just as bad or worse. The main reason many don't believe that Jesus was telling a parable is because he named the poor man and his name was Lazarus. This seems to indicate that this was a true story involving real people. It's all ridiculous anyway.

So you took no interest in my post #15? I have been waiting for a comment on it from you.

It is correct that "Hell" and "the lake of fire" are two different places. "Hell" is actually the Biblical grave of mankind, from the Greek word "Hades." It is not a fiery place. The lake of fire is symbolic for complete destruction with no resurrection. There is no place of literal torture. A parable is a story that REFLECTS reality, but it is not literal. The Rich Man & Lazarus was a metaphorical story revealing the Pharisees as the hypocritical, irresponsible shepherds that they were. The "torment" that the "rich man" experienced was the exposing that Jesus did of their hypocrisy.


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[amortalman]

[Replying to post 15 by onewithhim]

You certainly had the right to respond to my post any way you chose, but I'm not obligated to respond to subjects not in keeping with the OP outline.

[William]

[Replying to post 9 by Divine Insight]

This God has already put us into a world polluted with pedophiles, wolves, and all manner of evil people.

Wolves!!! That is just saddening for me to see that on your list.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 333 by amortalman]

Please tell me how my response was "not in keeping with the OP putline." Thanks.

[ttruscott]

It wouldn't say much good about me if I had to have a threat like eternal torment to make me willing to let go of the old man and put on the new.

There is nothing good to say about a sinner anyway, and the big spur to a willingness to repent of sin and to choose righteousness has never been an fear of an unproven hell (we know we are safe from that as believers already Jn 3:18) but that our sins finally open our eyes to our great guilt for the suffering we have caused others and we understand we cannot free ourselves from sin and that we need a saviour!

[EBA]

I have two questions primarily for Christians.

Hi amortalman.

1) If your brand of religion teaches that unbelievers will be judged by God and cast into Hell and the Lake of Fire for eternity to suffer there with no possibility of death or escape, is this action by God a just punishment, and why?

I was taught this from an early age and in turn it drove me to become an athiest. Long story short, I'm no longer an athiest, and really don't believe that unbelievers are cast into hell (the lake of fire yes - that lake of fire is both bad and good). It is punishment and it is a means to salvation.

2) The second question is purely hypothetical and reaches way out there. If your God gave you permission to do as you please concerning eternal Hell, to keep it, or to abolish it in favor of, say, annihilation, would you keep it or do away with it?

Both eternal torment and annihilation are unscriptural.

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. (Isa 26:9)

NOTE: In regards to question number one I'm thinking about the story told by Jesus of the rich man and Lazarus found in Luke chapter 16. The Lake of Fire is mentioned in Revelation 20:10-15 and 21:8.

The "story told by Jesus of the rich man and Lazarus" is a parable and one of the most beautiful ones I've ever had the privelage of understanding.

To me, an eternity of suffering in Hell defies logic and any sense of compassion what-so-ever. During my years as a Christian in an evangelical church, I've heard many preachers preface a sermon on Hell by saying they don't like to talk about it and don't like the concept of it but they must preach it because that's what the Bible teaches. I was once a part of a Biblical teaching program for children 2nd through 6th grade. I can only imagine the nightmares some of them had after being told that without Jesus they would go to Hell forever. Someone might argue that it's better that than to go to Hell. But does the fear tactic really work, and if it does, is that the best way, to scare the hell out of them?

Unfortunately, it does work. And Jesus said:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell (geenna) than yourselves. (Mat 23:15)

In my understanding of the Bible, and what is being taught to millions of people in evangelical churches around the world, there are two kinds of people who will be cast into Hell. Those who have never heard the gospel and those how have rejected the gospel after having heard it. According to that teaching, there are countless millions of poor souls being tormented in Hell right now because they never had an opportunity to hear about Christ. Furthermore, there are hundreds if not thousands that are dying every day and going to Hell for lack of an opportunity to decide. Is that just?

Actually, dead people are dead. No one is being tormented anywhere. And there is only one group that will be cast into the lake of fire:

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (Joh 5:29)

They will, however, be saved.

God Bless!