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JP Cusick
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:11 am  Eating animal is wrong - be vegetarian is right: Reply with quote

Arrow The constantly misrepresented Bible text is that humans have dominion over animals and thereby dominion means we can kill and eat animals as we wish, and that is not what the scripture declares, see here below:

Genesis 1:
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
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So from this we can see that directly in the next verse after saying that humanity had "dominion" over the animals - then it tells us to only eat fruits and grains.

As such dominion over the animals never meant to kill or to eat the animals.

When Jesus was asked about divorce He said = "... but from the beginning it was not so." Matthew 19:8, because it matters as to what was in the beginning, and in the beginning people were not to eat animals.

Later after people became sinful (full of sin), after Noah's ark, then people ate animals and people demanded meat to eat, so God compromised by letting sinners eat the animals but God told them how to clean and cook the meat - which was an improvement for ignorant barbaric humanity, but this was not the original plan.

As such if any person wants to really get closer to God then they need to stop living off of the violence and butchery of animal sacrifices.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:25 pm
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JP Cusick wrote:

bluethread wrote:

This is not true, the bread and wine were already part of the ritual. He just added greater significance to them. The reason the lamb is not eaten on Pesach is because there is no Temple. In fact, when he referred to "this bread" and "this cup", he was referring to the afikoman and the third cup of the Seder. It does not refer to changing the Seder or doing away with any part of it, especially not those parts that are directly commanded.

I would suggest that if destroying the temple helped to stop the animal sacrifices - then the Roman army was serving Yahweh.

Praise be to God.


However, we are not talking about sacrifices, we are talking about eating meat. The fact that there is no sacrifice does not mean that the Pesach meal should be vegan.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:09 am
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bluethread wrote:

However, we are not talking about sacrifices, we are talking about eating meat. The fact that there is no sacrifice does not mean that the Pesach meal should be vegan.

If we go by the Bible then God taught the ignorant barbarian people to clean and cook the meat instead of eating animals raw, and God did this by creating the ritual of sacrifice.

Therefore and thereafter the sacrifice at the temple was done as the example and then the people would go home and follow that example by cleaning and cooking their own animal food before eating it.

And even more important is that God told people to offer up animal sacrifices for their sins because the point was for the people to see that their sins were the cause of the animal being slaughtered and thereby to inspire some remorse and repentance.

As is said = Hosea 6:6 ~ For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

So yes sacrifice and eating meat are both directly connected to each other.

I really see that as similar to Jesus' sacrifice - as the point was for people to see the shame and the sorrow of Christ being butchered, instead of celebrating the crucifixion as our salvation.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:24 pm
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Eating animal is wrong - be vegetarian is right:


Doesn't one eat fish or any other seafood, please?
What is wrong with eat, please?
Does't a lion eat other animals?
Is it unnatural, please?
Anybody, please
Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:50 am
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paarsurrey1 wrote:

Quote:
Eating animal is wrong - be vegetarian is right:


Doesn't one eat fish or any other seafood, please?
What is wrong with eat, please?
Does't a lion eat other animals?
Is it unnatural, please?
Anybody, please
Regards

If by natural you mean it is carnal then yes it is, and we need to stop living as brute beast.

It is a matter of viewing violence as wrong, and to eat animals is a violent act.

When we put violence into our body - then violence comes out of us.

The fish are harmless innocent animals which fight to survive and we humans are the superior species with great advantages so we can have some mercy on all animals including giving mercy to the fish.

In the beginning mankind was created to just eat seed bearing herbs and fruit, see Genesis 29 in the link here = Genesis: 1:27-31

It is noteworthy to point out that God said mankind was to have "dominion over the animals" but the very next verse says not to eat the animals.

Later after humanity became full of sins then people started eating animals and so God told the sinners to go ahead and eat the meat but God told the people to clean and to cook the meat before eating.

So if we want to separate from sinful humanity then we must stop eating animals, and if we want to get closer to God then too we must stop eating animals.

The lion eats other animals just as bigger fish eat smaller fish and it is because of sin being in this world, see here Isaiah 11:6-10

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:20 pm
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[Replying to post 24 by JP Cusick]

Quote:
In the beginning, mankind was created to just eat seed-bearing herbs and fruit


Doesn't one eat eggs?
Don't the seed-bearing herbs, fruit and other botanical growth also living things, please?

One may like to read:
"A number of studies have shown that plants feel pain, and vegetables are picked and often eaten while still alive. Animal rights activists are often in the news, but has anyone ever protested for vegetable rights?"
Phil Cohen, Sydney, Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html

Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 26: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:48 pm
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paarsurrey1 wrote:

JP Cusick wrote:
In the beginning, mankind was created to just eat seed-bearing herbs and fruit

Doesn't one eat eggs?
Don't the seed-bearing herbs, fruit and other botanical growth also living things, please?

One may like to read:
"A number of studies have shown that plants feel pain, and vegetables are picked and often eaten while still alive. Animal rights activists are often in the news, but has anyone ever protested for vegetable rights?"
Phil Cohen, Sydney, Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html

Regards

I can agree that plants feel pain, and humanity is just so vicious and cruel that we murder and destroy everything.

The ideal way is to eat fruit because picking the fruit or even waiting for the fruit to drop does not hurt nor harm the plant.

Plus eating just the seed as like rice, wheat, corn, oats, grains, do not have to harm the plant because we can pick the grain (the seeds) without hurting the plant.

It would be very hard to do this in today's world but it is possible, and some people do make that effort.

My view is that we can see and hear the animals crying in pain and fighting for their life which is not a matter of opinion as like the claim that plants feel pain - we know that the animals do.

Also we know from the Bible that God told the people to sacrifice the animals as a sin offering, and the point was that people were to see the animal suffering for our sins as an injustice and that it is wrong, as God said = " For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. " Hosea 6:6

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 27: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:14 am
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[Replying to post 26 by JP Cusick]

Doesn't one drink milk?
Doesn't one take honey?
Doesn't one drink water?
Doesn't one breath air, please?

Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 28: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:53 pm
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paarsurrey1 wrote:

Doesn't one drink milk?
Doesn't one take honey?
Doesn't one drink water?
Doesn't one breath air, please?

I like soy milk, and there is almond milk too.

I stopped eating honey, unless it is a minor ingredient as like a honey bun, but people could stop it all if people would put forth the effort.

Both water and air are okay, and both water and air are non violent.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 29: Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:37 am
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There is no compulsion in the Truthful Religion to eat meat or anything else.
One-True-God has created everything in the Universe including us humans. He knows the human needs and He has control over everything.He is the Master over everything:
[1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=12&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR...
He has allowed to eat meat with certain conditions and we honor His permission.
Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 30: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:00 am
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paarsurrey1 wrote:

He has allowed to eat meat with certain conditions and we honor His permission.

It is true that God gave permission for humans as sinners to eat animals, but it only came after humans became sinners and people demanded the meat as food - which sinful people still demand to this day.

So if any person ever really wants to get closer to God then we must stop eating animals.

The problem is that the animals are innocent and they are defenseless and we humans need to control our brutality and our violence and we must learn to have mercy and compassion for those who are weaker and vulnerable to our self.

I know the argument that we are to be more merciful and compassionate to other people, but I find that never quite works because by eating animals we are not being merciful or compassionate to our self, and every virtue starts at home in our own life.

Trying to be merciful and compassionate to other people is just going half way and half way is never enough.

The people use to eat animals raw (with the blood) and that is why God gave them the sacrifice ritual to clean the meat and drain the blood and to cook the meat which is better then carnal and unclean humans eating raw animal meat.

God gave humanity plenty of fruits and grains and vegetation to eat - but people were brutal sinners who craved blood and guts into their bellies.

The animal sacrifices (cooking the meat) was not what God wanted = " For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. " Hosea 6:6

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