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Mr.Badham
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:24 pm  Metaphysical proof Reply with quote

Is there something that isn't metaphysically possible?

Metaphysically speaking, couldn't all possible gods exist?

Metaphysically speaking, don't all possible gods exist?

Metaphysically speaking, all gods are believable.

Right?

Can any of this be proven incorrect?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 11: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:09 am
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JP Cusick wrote:
    I WANT TO BELIEVE.

[…]
Without the metaphysical then life must be really boring.


I want to believe as well. But without actual evidence, those beliefs are mere speculation. Speculation is certainly not boring. I won't confuse speculation with reality no matter how boring it makes me.

X-files is fictional.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 12: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:20 pm
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JP Cusick wrote:

    I WANT TO BELIEVE.

That perspective makes all the difference between useless denials and brilliant enlightenment.

When a person does not want to believe then their doors are shut and locked as their own self imposed prison.

Without the metaphysical then life must be really boring.


Do you really think that those who do not claim to know the truth of reality do so because they aren't interested in believing in a mystical magical world? Think

This is not only ridiculous, but it actually exposes your motivation for having convinced yourself that things you cannot know to be true are true. Obviously, you believe that simply becasue you WANT TO BELIEVE.

That's fine and dandy for a personal philosophy on life. But as an argument on a debate forum it fails miserable.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 13: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:20 am
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McCulloch wrote:

I want to believe as well. But without actual evidence, those beliefs are mere speculation. Speculation is certainly not boring. I won't confuse speculation with reality no matter how boring it makes me.

X-files is fictional.

The really is that there is plenty of real evidence, and in my view the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive for the reality of the Creator / Father which people refer to as God.

Science has shown us far grander miracles then ever told in any scriptures, as like the earth spinning around at high speed in empty space being held by invisible yet powerful forces and all moving just perfectly as it keeps the earth fitting for us mortals. That is a far bigger miracle than anything in the Bible.

The problem is only with people who refuse to see and who refuse to understand, and there is no cure for that kind of rebellion and hostility, and so your people just shut out the massive proof of the real Creator / Father God.

There is also conclusive PROPHESY as proof, and the existence of Ghosts / spirits / Demons is another proof, and personal revelation is a big proof too, but nothing can get through to people who refuse to see and refuse to understand.

This is like arguing with a child, as the child sings this song =
Singing: ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ = I'm not going to believe it = ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ = and you can't make me = ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ = nannee nannie nan nan = ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮


------------------------------------------------


Divine Insight wrote:

Do you really think that those who do not claim to know the truth of reality do so because they aren't interested in believing in a mystical magical world? Think

As already said = the Creator God is not mystical nor metaphysical, and as such those who say they do not know the reality of God are somehow defective or dishonest or whatever.

Yes it might help a person to view God as mystical and / or metaphysical at first in order to investigate the reality.

The problem is only with people who refuse to see and who refuse to understand, because I do not know of any cure for that kind of rebellion and hostility.

Divine Insight wrote:

This is not only ridiculous, but it actually exposes your motivation for having convinced yourself that things you cannot know to be true are true. Obviously, you believe that simply becasue you WANT TO BELIEVE.

When it comes to the mystical and / or the metaphysical then yes I want to believe.

After I found out about the reality of Ghosts and of Prophesy and the reality of God - then that opened the door to all the other possibilities too.

When you or anyone shuts the door to God then that shuts out everything else too.

Divine Insight wrote:

That's fine and dandy for a personal philosophy on life. But as an argument on a debate forum it fails miserable.

This perception troubles me about you, and as such it gives me insight into others who follow your same route, in that denial is easy and denial is taking the easy way out while it gives you the feeling and the appearance of superiority but none of the substance of superiority.

I myself really love debates and arguments when they are productive or conscientious, but otherwise participating in senseless arguments and useless debates are things which I finally learned to avoid.

My better view is to have discussions based on the intention of sharing information and for gaining new knowledge or insights.

You expect me to convince you by showing you the evidence as if it is not already available to every person on the planet earth, and I myself have no motivation nor desire to convert anyone nor to convince anyone, and so I see no reason at all for me to play along with your game of proven it to you while you are in constant denial.

Lets get back to the OP:

Is there something that isn't metaphysically possible? I say only contradicting the absolute truth of God is not possible, everything else is possible.

Metaphysically speaking, couldn't all possible gods exist? I say yes, and I do believe that all the Gods do exist, but there is only one (1) Father God who is supreme.

Metaphysically speaking, don't all possible gods exist? Yes, same as above.

Metaphysically speaking, all gods are believable. Their existence might be believable but it does not mean that their message is true or believable. The false Gods are false because they lie or are untrue.

Right? Right.

Can any of this be proven incorrect? No.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 14: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:08 am
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Mr.Badham wrote:

Is there something that isn't metaphysically possible?

Metaphysically speaking, couldn't all possible gods exist?

Metaphysically speaking, don't all possible gods exist?

Metaphysically speaking, all gods are believable.

Right?

Can any of this be proven incorrect?



Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "metaphysics" and "metaphysically".

As far as I can tell the only metaphysical question that has been asked in the OP is

Quote:

Is there something that isn't metaphysically possible?


Of which the obvious answer is, a contradiction.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 15: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:04 am
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JP Cusick wrote:

I am making a declaration to anyone interested and that is not the same as a CLAIM.

claim
kleɪm/
verb

state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.


You made a claim

JP Cusick wrote:

What you are asking is egotistical as if you are the high Judge and the jury over me which you are not.

How is asking you to follow the rules of debate egotistical?

JP Cusick wrote:
If you can not comprehend the discussion then you need to step out instead expecting me to explain it to your unreasonable and rebellious satisfaction

The unreasonable and rebellious satisfaction... of wanting claims to be supported?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 16: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:17 am
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Justin108 wrote:

JP Cusick wrote:

I am making a declaration to anyone interested and that is not the same as a CLAIM.

claim
kleɪm/
verb

state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.


You made a claim

Clearly you are hung up on the dictionary-God and I try to respect all of the Gods, so here is the definition from a dictionary:

DECLARATION:
noun
1. the act of declaring; announcement:
a declaration of a dividend.
2. a positive, explicit, or formal statement; proclamation:
a declaration of war.
3. something that is announced, avowed, or proclaimed.
4. a document embodying or displaying an announcement or proclamation:
He posted the declaration in a public place.

Justin108 wrote:

JP Cusick wrote:
If you can not comprehend the discussion then you need to step out instead expecting me to explain it to your unreasonable and rebellious satisfaction

The unreasonable and rebellious satisfaction... of wanting claims to be supported?

What I suggest is that you create a new thread and put it into a nonsense section of this forum where you can ask people to debate endlessly even after the discussion is over and the questions are answered - and then just keep trying to convince those people who refuse to see and refuse to understand and who fail to acknowledge when their petty games are finished.

Call it = The endless Dribble debate: - with you as the Judge and Jury of that thread.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 17: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:48 am
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JP Cusick wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

JP Cusick wrote:

I am making a declaration to anyone interested and that is not the same as a CLAIM.

claim
kleɪm/
verb

state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.


You made a claim

Clearly you are hung up on the dictionary-God

The dictionary is not a god

JP Cusick wrote:
and I try to respect all of the Gods, so here is the definition from a dictionary:

DECLARATION:
noun
1. the act of declaring; announcement:
a declaration of a dividend.
2. a positive, explicit, or formal statement; proclamation:
a declaration of war.
3. something that is announced, avowed, or proclaimed.
4. a document embodying or displaying an announcement or proclamation:
He posted the declaration in a public place.

Ok so it's a declaration as well as a claim... It doesn't change the fact that it's a claim.

JP Cusick wrote:

Quote:
The unreasonable and rebellious satisfaction... of wanting claims to be supported?

What I suggest is that you create a new thread and put it into a nonsense section of this forum

What I suggest is you support the claims you make

JP Cusick wrote:

where you can ask people to debate endlessly

Yes I've noticed you dislike debating. Making me wonder why you willingly frequent a debate site. Is this some kind of masochistic fetish?

JP Cusick wrote:
even after the discussion is over and the questions are answered

The questions are not answered. At no point did you answer the question of what proof you have for the existence of God.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 18: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:53 am
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Justin108 wrote:

The questions are not answered. At no point did you answer the question of what proof you have for the existence of God.

Lets get back to the topic from the OP:

Is there something that isn't metaphysically possible? I say only contradicting the absolute truth of God is not possible, everything else is possible.

Metaphysically speaking, couldn't all possible gods exist? I say yes, and I do believe that all the Gods do exist, but there is only one (1) Father God who is supreme.

Metaphysically speaking, don't all possible gods exist? Yes, same as above.

Metaphysically speaking, all gods are believable. Their existence might be believable but it does not mean that their message is true or believable. The false Gods are false because they lie or are untrue.

Right? Right.

Can any of this be proven incorrect? No.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 19: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:06 am
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JP Cusick wrote:

Can any of this be proven incorrect? No.

Does any of this need to be proven incorrect? No. Because that's not how the burden of proof works

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 20: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:12 am
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JP Cusick wrote:

This perception troubles me about you, and as such it gives me insight into others who follow your same route, in that denial is easy and denial is taking the easy way out while it gives you the feeling and the appearance of superiority but none of the substance of superiority.


Your above assessment is your own personal delusion that has absolutely nothing at all to do with reality. I have no feelings of superiority. Where you come up with such nonsense is beyond me.

JP Cusick wrote:

I myself really love debates and arguments when they are productive or conscientious, but otherwise participating in senseless arguments and useless debates are things which I finally learned to avoid.


I haven't seen you engage in a rational debate yet. Proclaiming that your opinions are the gospel truth whilst all rational and logical evidence against your opinions will be ignored is hardly a productive debate.

JP Cusick wrote:

You expect me to convince you by showing you the evidence as if it is not already available to every person on the planet earth, and I myself have no motivation nor desire to convert anyone nor to convince anyone, and so I see no reason at all for me to play along with your game of proven it to you while you are in constant denial.


If the evidence is readily available to every person on planet earth, then you should have absolutely no problem at all pointing to this evidence. Your refusal to do so exposes the fallacy of your claims.

JP Cusick wrote:

Lets get back to the OP:

Is there something that isn't metaphysically possible? I say only contradicting the absolute truth of God is not possible, everything else is possible.


Stating an opinion that is not backed up by any reason, logic, or evidence is hardly material for a productive debate.

JP Cusick wrote:

Metaphysically speaking, couldn't all possible gods exist? I say yes, and I do believe that all the Gods do exist, but there is only one (1) Father God who is supreme.


Yet another personal opinion stated without any reason, logic, or evidence to support it. Therefore anyone stating a contradictory opinion with the same lack of reason, logic, and evidence has equal weight.

JP Cusick wrote:

Metaphysically speaking, don't all possible gods exist? Yes, same as above.


Exactly: Same as above. An opinion that has no reason, logic, or evidence to back it up.

JP Cusick wrote:

Metaphysically speaking, all gods are believable. Their existence might be believable but it does not mean that their message is true or believable. The false Gods are false because they lie or are untrue.


In that case just about every God character in all religions created by men that proclaim the existence of a specific God are necessarily false, since they can all be shown to contain lies and falsehoods.

This leaves us with only the metaphysical philosophies that don't actually make any specific claims about their ill-defined Gods. And it rules out all God based on mythological tales, such as the Abrahamic religions, etc.

JP Cusick wrote:

Can any of this be proven incorrect? No.



Mythologies that describe self-contradictory Gods can indeed be proven to be false because of their logical contradictions.

Therefore the only metaphysical philosophies that cannot be disproved are those that avoid making very specific contradictory statements about their God. This ultimately leaves their "God" ill-defined, or totally undefined. In which case it's actually impossible to say that such a God exists, since its existence would change nothing that wouldn't already be true in a purely secular world anyway.

In short, at the very best, any metaphysical philosophy can only be on equal footing with a secular philosophy, but can never be superior without producing evidence that its imagined ill-defined God actually exists. So only evidence can break the tie. Opinions stated without evidence cannot.

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