What did Jesus mean saying " you must be born again&

[dio9]

According to the garden story; in the beginning man is in a state of oneness with all things like a child , no self-consciousness , no intellectualizing, no reflection , just responding naturally to it all part of nature, not aware of any distance or separateness between himself and nature.
This primordial state is changed when he makes a conscious decision breaking the command not to eat the forbidden fruit, he consciously commits act of disobedience . Which brings him to a consciousness of himself as an outsider out of place and ashamed separate from God , Eve , all the animals, and the earth. This is what Christian theology calls The Fall of Man . When he leaves he can never return to the same garden . Like the sages say "you can't step in the same river twice". He was a true child but can only return as a restored child. Never the less the oneness is the same for both.

This was the beginning of History as western civilization knows it, history has been a movement of return to what can not be regained. This is the Messianic hope deep within us all, a return to Eden after a history of alienation the same space but different . The world the prophets and Jesus spoke of as the one in the fullness of time where Adam has restored himself in mind and heart intellectually and heartisticly based on fulfillment of the subconscious remembrance of our common original subconscious oneness as it was in the beginning again . This is what it means to be born again; Jesus was calling for a return to the oneness.

This is my pop psych understanding of what he meant . To be born again means not back to the original Eden but to a consciously restored Eden .

For discussion : What do you think to be born again means.

[JehovahsWitness]

Born again as best as I can describe means; grown persons restoring their mind and heart to the pre alienated state of a new born, through a change in intellectualization emotionalization socialization grace penance and forgiveness.

Duly noted. Since the OP was asking people what they believe (rather than asking us to discuss YOUR beliefs) I have posted what I believe.

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

can you not articulate it yourself? I am not interested in using a link .

All links that direct you to debatingchristianity are me articulating myself.

This is me articulating
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 455#850455


If I left anything out or you have any questions about what *I* think Jesus means, feel free to ask.



JW

[bluethread]

I think you are ignoring the historical and cultural contexts. The phrase "born again" is not a Gian reference to the creation, but a reference to the covenant with Avraham, Yitzchak and Yokov. Nakdimon was an emissary from the Sanhedrian sent to enquire as to Yeshua's intentions. Yeshua takes immediate charge of the situation and addresses the issue of hereditary salvation. He points out that being part of Adonai's kingdom is not based on physical heredity, but being "born" into Adonai's kingdom via the Ruach HaChedosh and living as a "light", i.e. in accordance with Adonai's ways.

Are you saying Jesus was saying change your way of thinking ?

No, He was saying that being born Jewish is not good enough. Then given that, Adonai, for the sake of His creation, has chosen a people to be an eternal light to the nations. If one wishes to be one of those people, one must live in accordance with Adonai's ways. So, it's not just changing one's way of thinking, but also one's way of living. Be a different type of human, like when one leaves the womb and experiences a while different life. As Yeshua points out, this is not a new idea. This concept has long been associated with the symbolism of the mikvah.