Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

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Mick
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Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #1

Post by Mick »

I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #11

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[Replying to post 9 by BusB]

Try looking at that from a different perspective. There are those that let themselves be called and those that refuse to hear God calling:
If you are called you cannot refuse. You are speaking of God her not religion.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day. How can you refuse if you are dragged? Example: It I tied a chain on you and tied you to a Mack truck. Can you refuse as I dragged you. The power of God’s spirit to draw/draw/compel is far greater than some little Mack truck. Man having a freewill in his own salvation is a religious word not a Biblical truth.

"And 1, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw A-L-L M-E-N unto Me" (Jn. 12:32).

Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead<(divinity, as in higher nature); so that they are without excuse...
"

The word wrath in the Greek means over desire.
God calls everyone but not everyone is willing to hear:
Chapter and verse please? You see all men do not hear for they are carnal. But that is why God uses His spirit to drag.
Psalms 19:1 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard."

Acts 17:26 "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us.
Amen.

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #12

Post by Mick »

Benoni wrote: [Replying to Mick]Notice the servant will get his portion of glory so will the unbeliever.


You have missed one of the most important points in the parable. It is talking about ONLY ONE servant, not a servant and an unbeliever.

The simple understanding of this parable is that the ONE servant will be either rewarded or condemned upon Jesus' return, depending on his actions. He will face heaven or hell.

God bless,
Mick

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #13

Post by Benoni »

[Replying to Mick]

Hell is a man made lie.

We are speaking about a parable and when God speaks to the spiritual man he is always singular never plural. example: this phase is repeated many times in Revelation: He that have an ear let him hear. it does not say they or many who have an ear. A spiritual man must goes outside the camp

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #14

Post by Mick »

[Replying to Benoni]
Hell is a man made lie.
My friend, if you don't believe in hell (the lake of fire) then you don't believe in the Bible hence there is little chance of us having a meaningful conversation so I will leave it with you.

God bless,
Mick

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #15

Post by Benoni »

[Replying to Mick]

I never said I did not believe in the lake of fire but if you are so closed minded you cannot not even search the truth the word hell is not in the original Greek or Hebrew than I have nothing to say to you.

The word hell is not even in the original language of the Bible; it is a total mistranslation. The words Sheol, Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna have no root or meaning in the word hell. The word hell came from an Angle Saxon word meaning to bury. You go to the UK today and you can hel your potatoes.

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave
Ha-des(hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament
Yes there is a Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)
Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment.

Jesus was not speaking to the world/pagan people/sinners; he was speaking to the Jews (believers during His time He walked o n this earth); when ever He used this Greek word Gehenna. The Teutonic pagan word Hell Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature; it is the reaping of what Israel had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER�.
Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.

Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #16

Post by Mick »

Benoni wrote: [Replying to Mick]

I never said I did not believe in the lake of fire but if you are so closed minded you cannot not even search the truth the word hell is not in the original Greek or Hebrew than I have nothing to say to you.
OK. Why don't we just leave it at that thanks.

God bless,
Mick

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #17

Post by Benoni »

[Replying to Mick]

Because a spiritual man is not afraid of seeking truth where all a religious man can do is defend his bias. It is the Spirit of truth that leads and guides us into all truth not the Bible. What makes God;s Word alive is the quicken of the Spirit NOT letter that killeth when you interpret it by some man made tradition.


2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth

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Post #18

Post by otseng »

Benoni wrote: [Replying to Mick]

I never said I did not believe in the lake of fire but if you are so closed minded you cannot not even search the truth the word hell is not in the original Greek or Hebrew than I have nothing to say to you.
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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #19

Post by onewithhim »

Mick wrote: I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.

In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:

a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.

b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.

c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.

To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.

To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.

Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.

What do you think of this parable?
I completely agree with you. There are many passages in the Christian Greek Scriptures that show that a person must KEEP on the path to life in order to be saved. Some very good and clear ones are:

Colossians 1:21-23....."Although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet he [Christ] has now reconciled you in his fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him [the Father] holy and blameless and beyond reproach---if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (NASB)

Hebrews 6:4-6....."For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put him to open shame." (NASB)

Hebrews 10:26-29....."For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" (NASB)


We can see from these verses that a person who has been accepted by God into a reconciled relationship with Him (saved thus far) and has even been a partaker of the Holy Spirit (unbelievers can't do that) can cause himself to be condemned after falling away.

Somebody made up the idea of "once saved always saved" to soothe the consciences of people who claimed to be saved but really wanted to delve back into the world and what it has to offer. It's totally a man-made doctrine.

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Re: Salvation Loss. Is it possible?

Post #20

Post by onewithhim »

Mick wrote: [Replying to Benoni]
Hell is a man made lie.
My friend, if you don't believe in hell (the lake of fire) then you don't believe in the Bible hence there is little chance of us having a meaningful conversation so I will leave it with you.

God bless,
Mick
Oops you struck a nerve with me. Have you ignored the threads on "hell" that have been going on for some time? The Bible does not teach a literal place where people are roasted forever. The fire prepared for the Devil is a symbolic fire, meaning that the Devil will finally end up just like how a pile of straw ends up after being set aflame---nothing. To be thrown into "Gehenna" or "the lake of fire" would mean that the thing "thrown" into them becomes obliterated completely. To get the point, consider Revelation 20:14 where "death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire." (NASB) What does it mean that death and Hades [Hell] were thrown into the lake of fire?


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