The principle of atonement

[Checkpoint]

Or is it contrary to it?

A number of questions may be asked and answered on a thread like this.

For example:

What is the principle of atonement?

What part does atonement play in scripture, and in the old and new covenants?

How can we know what does and does not reflect the character [and ways] of God?

[Justin108]

You demand a quick answer

I never demanded a quick answer.

because you refuse to let anyone to first prepare you so that you can understand

Prepare me how?

When quick answers are given, you just attack them as being wrong

I don't just call them wrong. I give good reason for why they are wrong. If my reasoning is flawed, then explain where my reasoning is flawed.

IIMHO, all you are actually allowing me to tell you is that you need to think more about what honestly inspecting the answers of others requires.

I used to be just like that and so I recognize it. I, too, learn the hard way.

I'm not here to be lectured, I'm here to debate. If you are not interested in debating, then stop responding to me. If your next response is not an attempt to address the points I raised, then I will simply ignore you.

[Left Site]

You demand a quick answer

I never demanded a quick answer.

because you refuse to let anyone to first prepare you so that you can understand

Prepare me how?

When quick answers are given, you just attack them as being wrong

I don't just call them wrong. I give good reason for why they are wrong. If my reasoning is flawed, then explain where my reasoning is flawed.

IIMHO, all you are actually allowing me to tell you is that you need to think more about what honestly inspecting the answers of others requires.

I used to be just like that and so I recognize it. I, too, learn the hard way.

I'm not here to be lectured, I'm here to debate. If you are not interested in debating, then stop responding to me. If your next response is not an attempt to address the points I raised, then I will simply ignore you.

I was a lot like you when I was your age. It took me a while to figure out that what we comprehend concerning things is hugely affected by what we have been preconditioned to believe about those things. And it is both the quality of the information that we take in and the critical information that we miss out on taking in which form our beliefs. But once we have formed a belief, that belief acts like tint on our eye-glasses, coloring everything we see so that we fail to see the pure true colors.

I am not lecturing you. But if you want to understand what I am talking about get author Stephen Covey's book, 'The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People', and read it. You won't regret it.

[Left Site]

Or is it contrary to it?

A number of questions may be asked and answered on a thread like this.

For example:

What is the principle of atonement?

What part does atonement play in scripture, and in the old and new covenants?

How can we know what does and does not reflect the character [and ways] of God?

What is the principle of atonement? Mercy toward the faith of those who willingly would do better if they had help.

What part does atonement play in scripture, and in the old and new covenants? It makes the promises contained therein possible for us to achieve.

How can we know what does and does not reflect the character [and ways] of God? By believing in his mercy and getting the dark tint off of our eyes so that we can actually see what the scriptures and nature itself reveals about God. It boils down to this: We don't see anyone clearly whom we distrust. It wouldn't matter whether it was a fellow human or God, we cannot see them clearly through eyes that are unwilling to free themselves by trusting. Until then we only see what we imagine about them and we will distort many little bits of what we see to fit our suspicions. That is why those who have been sent to prison by this world's legal systems have such a hard time interfacing back into society afterwards. It is a similar thing.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 87 by Justin108]

Oh...God can do certain things, so He should do them, regardless of the cost, right? Hey, God can destroy the entire universe......do you think He should just because he CAN?

There are many good reasons why Jehovah did not destroy Adam immediately and replace him with another perfect man. They have been mentioned here already, yet apparently their logic has fallen on unlistening ears.

[onewithhim]

If they debate genuinely to search out answers (aka find truth) then there will be evidence of small bits of changed thinking.

Only if the points made by the opposition is good enough to change my thinking. You haven't made a single point good enough to do that. Now instead of questioning my intentions, can you address my arguments? If not, then stop replying to my posts.

Your arguments HAVE been addressed, but you clearly want merely to show that you are the smartest person here. You don't budge a fraction of an inch on ANYTHING. Therefore, it would be to my best interests to stop replying to your posts, which are belligerent.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 87 by Justin108]

Oh...God can do certain things, so He should do them, regardless of the cost, right?

What cost?

Hey, God can destroy the entire universe......do you think He should just because he CAN?

This is getting ridiculous. You are clearly becoming desperate. How is destroying the universe the same as removing our imperfections?

Let me make this as simple as possible for you
Destroy universe = bad
Remove imperfections = good

There are many good reasons why Jehovah did not destroy Adam immediately and replace him with another perfect man.

I never once suggested he should do this.

They have been mentioned here already, yet apparently their logic has fallen on unlistening ears.

I'm not arguing the logic of why Adam should not be destroyed because I never suggested that Adam should be destroyed!

Your arguments HAVE been addressed

No, I ask several specific questions and then you respond with some kind of blanket statement that doesn't address the separate, specific points I raised.

but you clearly want merely to show that you are the smartest person here.

Aww you think so? That's sweet of you

You don't budge a fraction of an inch on ANYTHING.

That's because you give me no reason to.

Therefore, it would be to my best interests to stop replying to your posts, which are belligerent.

I assumed you'd find an excuse to run away from the debate sooner or later.

[Wootah]

If they debate genuinely to search out answers (aka find truth) then there will be evidence of small bits of changed thinking.

Only if the points made by the opposition is good enough to change my thinking. You haven't made a single point good enough to do that. Now instead of questioning my intentions, can you address my arguments? If not, then stop replying to my posts.

Your arguments HAVE been addressed, but you clearly want merely to show that you are the smartest person here. You don't budge a fraction of an inch on ANYTHING. Therefore, it would be to my best interests to stop replying to your posts, which are belligerent.

Moderator Comment

Now if you had only kept all those thoughts in your head instead of posting, then I wouldn't have to make a comment. How about showing mercy on the mods....


Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Checkpoint]

Or is it contrary to it?

A number of questions may be asked and answered on a thread like this.

For example:

What is the principle of atonement?

What part does atonement play in scripture, and in the old and new covenants?

How can we know what does and does not reflect the character [and ways] of God?

What is the principle of atonement? Mercy toward the faith of those who willingly would do better if they had help.

What part does atonement play in scripture, and in the old and new covenants? It makes the promises contained therein possible for us to achieve.

How can we know what does and does not reflect the character [and ways] of God? By believing in his mercy and getting the dark tint off of our eyes so that we can actually see what the scriptures and nature itself reveals about God. It boils down to this: We don't see anyone clearly whom we distrust. It wouldn't matter whether it was a fellow human or God, we cannot see them clearly through eyes that are unwilling to free themselves by trusting. Until then we only see what we imagine about them and we will distort many little bits of what we see to fit our suspicions. That is why those who have been sent to prison by this world's legal systems have such a hard time interfacing back into society afterwards. It is a similar thing.

You make some good points, but I fail to see how they are answers to the questions you cited.

How would you define or explain what atonement is, and how it fits in, or doesn't, with the character we perceive God to have?