Scripture not needed for morality or ethics apparently

[rikuoamero]

In a thread in the Science sub forum, J P Cusick said the following

I do not claim that Einstein was some Prophet or Priest of God - certainly not - as I see him as a spineless and immoral jerk - and the reason he did so well in science is because he gained huge insight from the scriptures - and that was smart of him to do.

This has me thinking. Apparently, Einstein read Scripture, and had a high level of understanding, more so than your average person. Why, according to J P, he attributed his theory of relativity to Genesis (please ignore the fact that not once in his life did Einstein ever come close to even saying that).
So...we have a smart man, who has the holy scriptures of Judaeo/Christianity, and who has a high level of understanding of them...and yet, he is spineless, and an immoral jerk (so far, J P has not said WHY he says that).
So...are Scriptures actually necessary for morality? Looks like it's not. Surely J P will agree with me in that they seem to be entirely superfluous.

[alexxcJRO]

We must consider the parents, as in the mother uses birth control pills for 5 or 10 years and then her baby gets born with problems and yet it must be God who put evil into the child - well no.

Other parents (the fathers too) will drink booze and do drugs and smoke cancer sticks and eat swine and have sex with anyone they choose - but then God gets the blame for God creating an unhealthy child - well no.

Also contaminated water, contaminated air, ignorant food, exhaust fumes, and so much more as contributing factors.

We really need to stop blaming God for what people do.

Dude. This is about stopping psychopathy not about creating it.

This is a different subject, and what can God do but strike down any criminal or sinner with a lightning bolt or by any means - and that is just not the right way.

You say psychopathy but why not strike down every person who commits a violent crime? or strike down every person who deserves to be struck down? - the answer is that God loves His enemies and so striking them down would be violating that way.

The psychopaths are really lost souls crying out for their salvation, and it is humanity which fails to answer their cries.

God is omnipotent and omniscient. God can stop psychopathy from manifesting. God could make so that no one is born with psychopathic traits, everbody has a working empathic process.
Christians says God is love and wants to have a personal relationship based on unconditional love and respect with all humans.
But psychopaths cant experience or even understand love and loyalty.
So psychopaths can't have this a personal relationship with God for they cant experience or even understand love.

Q: So does God want to have a personal relationship based on unconditional love and respect with all humans?(Yes/No question)

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 14 by alexxcJRO]

I am not interested in discussing whether there is a God or not, I am presenting my opinion on the OP which is about the source of morality. If the existence of God is acceptable as a assumption in this topic I suggest that said God not scrpture alone, would be the ultimate source of the morality of his creation; if that assuption is unacceptable for participation in this thread I will wait for the OP (not you) to specifiy this.

Good day,

JW

[Willum]

[Replying to post 22 by JehovahsWitness]

JW, why don't you join us?
It seems almost every day your God forces you to compromise your morality and integrity and forces you to avoid logic and embrace false paradoxes, where the only winning side resides on relying on the unknown being true.

And God does not even say "peep," to protect you from these copromises with any truth that might be validated.
This seems more like what the "Adversary," is alleged to have you do, not God.

Like I say, join us.

[JP Cusick]

Dude. This is about stopping psychopathy not about creating it.

I am all for trying to reform psychopaths.

I just see it as humanity who makes our own problems, and so we need to fix our own problems too.

We need to give love even to the psychopaths too.

I would not want God to strike anyone down as an executioner from the Heavens.

God is omnipotent and omniscient. God can stop psychopathy from manifesting.

Even if God is omnipotent and omniscient then He still can not strike down sinners without striking down every person in the entire world.

You might view psychopaths as the worst kind of persons or worse kind of sinners, but the Bible declares that we all fall short and we are all sinners and one is not worse than the others.

The Bible tells that God one time flooded the earth, and another time God struck down Sodom and Gomorrah because of their sins, but then God came up with a better idea based on forgiveness and reconciliation for all of humanity.

Q: So does God want to have a personal relationship based on unconditional love and respect with all humans?(Yes/No question)

The answer is yes for God, but it is no for humans.

God gives unconditional love, while people do not.

Unconditional love really means one sided, as in loving thy enemies while thy enemies still hate us.

We could give unconditional love to another person while they do not give it back to us.

It does require huge conditions in order to give unconditional love, while there are no conditions to receive it.

Unconditional love requires very strong self discipline based on proven principles and it takes a huge amount of effort to do it correctly - but to receive unconditional love requires nothing.

Secondly the Bible says that God is no respecter of persons, but God does not disrespect persons either, see Acts 10:34-35, and this too that God is not mocked, Galatians 6:7-8

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 22 by JehovahsWitness]

JW, why don't you join us?
It seems almost every day your God forces you to compromise your morality and integrity and forces you to avoid logic and embrace false paradoxes, where the only winning side resides on relying on the unknown being true.

And God does not even say "peep," to protect you from these copromises with any truth that might be validated.
This seems more like what the "Adversary," is alleged to have you do, not God.

Like I say, join us.

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[MuffMaYne]

[Replying to post 1 by rikuoamero]

Do we need scripture to do something like donate to charity or feed a homeless man? No.

Its there for teaching and guidance, and to make clear the way to salvation. Its not there to micromanage your life.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 14 by alexxcJRO]

I am not interested in discussing whether there is a God or not, I am presenting my opinion on the OP which is about the source of morality. If the existence of God is acceptable as a assumption in this topic I suggest that said God not scrpture alone, would be the ultimate source of the morality of his creation; if that assuption is unacceptable for participation in this thread I will wait for the OP (not you) to specifiy this.

Good day,

JW

The lets stick to the op dodge card. Boring.
Being in a weak position got be a frustrating position.
You keep bailing out on me on every thread we debated.

Q: Why is that?!!!

[alexxcJRO]

I am all for trying to reform psychopaths.

I just see it as humanity who makes our own problems, and so we need to fix our own problems too.

We need to give love even to the psychopaths too.

I would not want God to strike anyone down as an executioner from the Heavens.

Even if God is omnipotent and omniscient then He still can not strike down sinners without striking down every person in the entire world.

You might view psychopaths as the worst kind of persons or worse kind of sinners, but the Bible declares that we all fall short and we are all sinners and one is not worse than the others.

The Bible tells that God one time flooded the earth, and another time God struck down Sodom and Gomorrah because of their sins, but then God came up with a better idea based on forgiveness and reconciliation for all of humanity.

Firstly,

Do you have comprehension issues or do you have an insatiable need to straw-man everything.
I said God can stop psychopathy from manifesting, meaning no human is born with psychopathic traits.
I said nothing about striking them down. Only you taught of something so awful. It not even crossed my mind. That says something.

Secondly,

So God cannot strike down sinners unless he strike down everybody for all are sinners.
But then you shoot yourself in the leg. Give example that go against your logic.

God struck down people of Sodom and Gomorrah yet he left the rest live.
Q: What happened to He still can not strike down sinners without striking down every person in the entire world.?

God struck down every people on planet Earth except Noah and his family.
Q: What happened to He still can not strike down sinners without striking down every person in the entire world.?

God struck down Uzzah yet he left the rest live.
Q: What happened to He still can not strike down sinners without striking down every person in the entire world.?

You are not making any sense. This is beyond laughable. )



Thirdly,

You say: I would not want God to strike anyone down as an executioner from the Heavens.
But God did this thing you dont want.
He stroke down Uzzah from Heaven.

2 Samuel 6:7
The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.

The answer is yes for God,

By answering with yes you are done my friend for the entire argument is based on the first premise.
My argument is an argumentum ad absurdum, "argument to absurdity" a form of argument which attempts to disprove a statement(in my case this: God is an omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good being who wants that everyone to have equal, fair chance at salvation and who wants to have personal relationship based on love, loyalty and respect with all humans.) by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion(Because God exists then psychopathy does not exist. ).

So you admit God who is an omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good being who wants that everyone to have equal, fair chance at salvation and who wants to have a personal relationship based on love, loyalty and respect with all humans(which includes psychopaths).
But psychopaths cant experience or even understand love and loyalty.
Psychopathy should not therefore exist for one need to experience or even understand love and loyalty so God to be able to have a personal relationship based on love, loyalty and respect with him/her.

Since psychopathy exists it logically follows God is not an omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good being who wants that everyone to have equal, fair chance at salvation and who wants to have a personal relationship based on love, loyalty and respect with all humans.

[JP Cusick]

But psychopaths cant experience or even understand love and loyalty.
Psychopathy should not therefore exist for one need to experience or even understand love and loyalty so God to be able to have a personal relationship based on love, loyalty and respect with him/her.

I do not accept that hateful interpretation of psychopaths, and yet you demand that interpretation to base your own denunciation of God as if God is to blame for your own interpretation of reality. See the reference I gave = Destined or not?

My view is that in the evil society and system of the USA (as the example) is what creates the sociopaths and the psychopaths because we push the sinful ignorance onto everyone.

Even a shallow religious person will have some tools to resist the pressure, but for people who are not secure in their own faith then they will easily fall victim to the pressure, and many people fall into extremes.

It is the "normal" people who push the abortion industry, the normal people who push sexual deviance, the normal people of the USA who attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Syria, and lets not forget Vietnam or Korea or the World Wars, and it is the normal people who support Drone bombs murdering innocent people and the use of torture too.

So for myself I see a far bigger problem with the normal people rather than the relatively small problem of a few psychopaths.

And according to the Bible the Father God does have a plan in action to save every one of us.

Since psychopathy exists it logically follows God is not an omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good being who wants that everyone to have equal, fair chance at salvation and who wants to have a personal relationship based on love, loyalty and respect with all humans.

I already told you that this is not a true nor accurate description, and yet you cling to it as the basis for your prejudice against God.

Every person must unlearn (unlearn) their own brainwashing before any of us can ever expect to find the higher truths of life.

Jerimiah 16:19 "... Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. 20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?"

You are the one (1) demanding this of God to be "omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good being who wants that everyone to have equal, fair chance at salvation and who wants to have a personal relationship based on love, loyalty and respect with all humans."

The truth about God and His relationship to humanity is far more compelling than your own hostile interpretation.

[Bust Nak]

We really need to stop blaming God for what people do.

How about no. If God exists, then he is to blame for absolutely everything. Then again, evil exist, therefore God doesn't, and hence isn't to blame for anything.