Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 ... 40, 41, 42  Next

Reply to topic
myth-one.com
First Post
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:01 pm  The Fate of Nonbelievers Reply with quote

Christians believe the Bible to be inspired by God. If so, true Christian theology will be found in the Bible. Likewise, theology which cannot be found in the Bible is not true Christian theology. Participants in this topic will debate the eternal fate of nonbelievers -- as written in the Bible! Nonbelievers will be defined as anyone who does not believe in Jesus -- regardless of their age, intelligence, or any other factor! One's input is valuable only if supported by the Bible. Whether or not one actually believes the Bible to be true is inconsequential! No preference will be given based on religious beliefs, faith, denominations, etc. We will attempt to jointly and finally agree as to what the Bible states believers will be saved from! It will be a learning experience, with no preaching or attempts at "saving" anyone. Hopefully we can save human lives and reduce irrational fears! I encourage all to participate!

As a starting point. This is what I claim the Holy Bible states as to the fate of nonbelievers: (Click on any item below for a full biblical defense of that claim.)
  1. The Bible defines two body types, natural and spiritual. God and the angels are spiritual bodied beings, while all other beings are physical. The main difference between the two types is longevity. Spiritual bodies are immortal, while natural bodies will perish. Also, pain is necessary for natural bodies to recognize when they're in harm's way. Spirits are indestructible, and thus need no pain.
  2. Two separate and distinct physical deaths may befall mankind, but only the first death is a certainty. Every human will die the first death.
  3. And every human who suffers their first death will be resurrected. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting life.
  4. But there will be an order to the resurrections. Christ was resurrected first. All dead believers will be resurrected at the second Coming of Christ, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming.
  5. All Christians living at the time of the Second Coming will be changed into spiritual beings and meet Christ in the air.
  6. At this time, there will be no living human Christians. All will have been born again of the Spirit as spiritual children of God. They will then spend the thousand year Millennium with Christ.
  7. Following the Millennium, all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and instantly perish -- being human. This is their second and everlasting death. They have opted out of life for all eternity.
  8. But their names were not written into the Book of Life prior to their judgment! Everyone with their names written in the Book of Life were born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God at the Second Coming. The Book of Life was cleared at that time. So why check it again?
  9. The only possible reason is that nonbelievers will have the opportunity to accept salvation during the judgment process! The blank Book of Life is reopened at the beginning of judgment so that names may be written into it. The names written into it will be names of nonbeliever who repent and accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment.
Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Consequences: No humans will suffer eternally in the lake of fire. Distraught parents who murder their children in their innocent years in an effort to send them to heaven as they have been taught -- have been deceived! Likewise, the millions of deceived Christians who constantly worry about their unsaved family and loved ones being eternally tortured in the fires of hell can now chill out.

Click here to view the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

I will modify attachments linked to from this post as we debate the issue and find corrections or improvements! Hopefully, we will be led to a good result!
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 191: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:10 am
Reply

Like this post
Benoni wrote:

myth-one.com wrote:

Benoni wrote:
You totally ignore the three verse I post where man has a spirit.

Quote:
Actually, the word "Spirit" appears once, and only once, in your posting #182

So what does made in God's image and likeness suppose to mean. That is where i get the word spirit because God is a spirit and we are his sons.

Benoni wrote:
So if Adam was not pure Spirit . . .

Quote:
See it right there on the first line?
??????
Word seven?

What "three verses" are you referring to?

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 192: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:58 am
Reply

Like this post
myth-one.com wrote:

Benoni wrote:

myth-one.com wrote:

Benoni wrote:
You totally ignore the three verse I post where man has a spirit.

Quote:
Actually, the word "Spirit" appears once, and only once, in your posting #182

So what does made in God's image and likeness suppose to mean. That is where i get the word spirit because God is a spirit and we are his sons.

Benoni wrote:
So if Adam was not pure Spirit . . .

Quote:
See it right there on the first line?
??????
Word seven?

What "three verses" are you referring to?

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?


You do not care you are a JW. A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 193: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:24 am
Reply

Like this post
Benoni wrote:


You do not care you are a JW.


Warning Moderator Warning


This is a personal attack ("You do not care") AND a blanket statement. Please make your points without the incivility.


Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.


Last edited by Elijah John on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:30 am; edited 2 times in total

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 194: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:25 am
Reply

Like this post
Myth-one.com wrote:
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 wrote:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?

Benoni wrote:
A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.

God is a Spirit. The original "pure Spirit."

Before the fall, you claim Adam was a pure spirit.

If God is a pure spirit and Adam is a pure spirit then Adam and God are equals.

And if God is without "sin and death," then Adam, being equal to God, is also without sin and death.

If Adam is without sin, there could be no "fall."

And if Adam is without death, Adam could not die.

Thus, if "pure spirits" are immune to sin and death, then it is impossible for them to change.

They remain "pure spirits" forever.

And they would all live happily ever after!

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 195: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:14 pm
Reply

Like this post
myth-one.com wrote:

Myth-one.com wrote:
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 wrote:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?

Benoni wrote:
A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.

God is a Spirit. The original "pure Spirit."

Before the fall, you claim Adam was a pure spirit.

If God is a pure spirit and Adam is a pure spirit then Adam and God are equals.

And if God is without "sin and death," then Adam, being equal to God, is also without sin and death.

If Adam is without sin, there could be no "fall."

And if Adam is without death, Adam could not die.

Thus, if "pure spirits" are immune to sin and death, then it is impossible for them to change.

They remain "pure spirits" forever.

And they would all live happily ever after!


No one ever said we are equal to God. We are his children... Sons.

Its not a matter what you have been taught it is a matter of what God word tells us.

Look a little deeper at Ps. 82 and notice how the word Elohim was used with both a capital G and lower case; same word same meaning both Strong’s 430 and this has happen all thought out the KJV and who know what other translation.
Ps 82:6-8 6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; (Elohim) you are all sons of the Most High.' 7 But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." 8 Rise up, O God (Elohim) , judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 196: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:32 pm
Reply

Like this post
Benoni wrote:

myth-one.com wrote:

Myth-one.com wrote:
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 wrote:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?

Benoni wrote:
A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.

God is a Spirit. The original "pure Spirit."

Before the fall, you claim Adam was a pure spirit.

If God is a pure spirit and Adam is a pure spirit then Adam and God are equals.

And if God is without "sin and death," then Adam, being equal to God, is also without sin and death.

If Adam is without sin, there could be no "fall."

And if Adam is without death, Adam could not die.

Thus, if "pure spirits" are immune to sin and death, then it is impossible for them to change.

They remain "pure spirits" forever.

And they would all live happily ever after!


No one ever said we are equal to God. We are his children... Sons.

Its not a matter what you have been taught it is a matter of what God word tells us.

You said Adam was a pure spirit.

God is a Spirit.

Do God and Adam have the same characteristics?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 197: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:57 pm
Reply

Like this post
[Replying to post 195 by Benoni]

Adam was God's son. God wanted him to go thought the process of tribulation, sin and death so in the end the overcomers will rule and reign with Christ. Without the fall of Adam we would be puppets.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 198: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:48 pm
Reply

Like this post (1): onewithhim
Benoni wrote:

[Replying to post 195 by Benoni]

Adam was God's son. God wanted him to go thought the process of tribulation, sin and death so in the end the overcomers will rule and reign with Christ. Without the fall of Adam we would be puppets.

No, puppets are controlled by others.

God did not command Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.

He commanded them not to eat from the tree of knowledge.

They did not do as He directed -- so they were not puppets before the fall.

They were free agents, and they freely chose to disobey God.

Now we are learning that was not the best thing to do.

One of the world's wisest men after a lifetime of seeking treasure, women, and whatever appeared to bring him pleasure; reached this final conclusion of the whole matter of life:

Quote:
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

This is the lesson we are here to learn in our short lifetime, that we should fear God and keep His commandments.

We learn this lesson by trying our way and failing. The answers about the best way to live are in the scriptures.

We learn this through trial, error, and hard knocks -- like Solomon.

If we learn it at all.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile Visit poster's website 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 199: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:42 pm
Reply

Like this post (1): onewithhim
Benoni wrote:

[Replying to post 195 by Benoni]

Adam was God's son. God wanted him to go thought the process of tribulation, sin and death so in the end the overcomers will rule and reign with Christ. Without the fall of Adam we would be puppets.


That Adam fell shows he was never a puppet, just as he was never "pure spirit".

Man was made in God's image and likeness, and was thus given dominion over other created life.

At the same time, man was made male and female, which no "pure spirit" is.

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 200: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:59 pm
Reply

Like this post
myth-one.com wrote:

Benoni wrote:

[Replying to post 195 by Benoni]

Adam was God's son. God wanted him to go thought the process of tribulation, sin and death so in the end the overcomers will rule and reign with Christ. Without the fall of Adam we would be puppets.

No, puppets are controlled by others.

God did not command Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.

He commanded them not to eat from the tree of knowledge.

They did not do as He directed -- so they were not puppets before the fall.

They were free agents, and they freely chose to disobey God.

Now we are learning that was not the best thing to do.

One of the world's wisest men after a lifetime of seeking treasure, women, and whatever appeared to bring him pleasure; reached this final conclusion of the whole matter of life:

Quote:
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

This is the lesson we are here to learn in our short lifetime, that we should fear God and keep His commandments.

We learn this lesson by trying our way and failing. The answers about the best way to live are in the scriptures.

We learn this through trial, error, and hard knocks -- like Solomon.

If we learn it at all.


Show me where man is a free agent in scripture? He had no choice in the garden it was God's will according to Ps. 90 and Romans 8:20 which you have rejected over and over again and keep assuming you have proof Adam did this by his own choice.

The religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture.

Oh sure you can find the word Freewill in the OT when it comes to the Hebrew Freewill offering; BUT that feast has nothing to do with basic salvation or Adam's sin.

The Bible is God’s will; His Word and all of God’s it will be accomplished. It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word. God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary.

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
(drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day

1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o); drag

Jeremiah 18:2
Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.




Romans 9:12 It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son]) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [1] relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).) 14 What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.) 16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. 18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. 19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and Why have you made me thus? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?

Goto top, bottom
View user's profile 
Display posts from previous:   

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 ... 40, 41, 42  Next

Jump to:  
Facebook
Tweet

 




On The Web | Ecodia | Hymn Lyrics Apps
Facebook | Twitter

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.   Produced by Ecodia.

Igloo   |  Lo-Fi Version