The Fate of Nonbelievers

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

The Fate of Nonbelievers

Post #1

Post by myth-one.com »

Christians believe the Bible to be inspired by God. If so, true Christian theology will be found in the Bible. Likewise, theology which cannot be found in the Bible is not true Christian theology. Participants in this topic will debate the eternal fate of nonbelievers -- as written in the Bible! Nonbelievers will be defined as anyone who does not believe in Jesus -- regardless of their age, intelligence, or any other factor! One's input is valuable only if supported by the Bible. Whether or not one actually believes the Bible to be true is inconsequential! No preference will be given based on religious beliefs, faith, denominations, etc. We will attempt to jointly and finally agree as to what the Bible states believers will be saved from! It will be a learning experience, with no preaching or attempts at "saving" anyone. Hopefully we can save human lives and reduce irrational fears! I encourage all to participate!

As a starting point. This is what I claim the Holy Bible states as to the fate of nonbelievers: (Click on any item below for a full biblical defense of that claim.)
  1. The Bible defines two body types, natural and spiritual. God and the angels are spiritual bodied beings, while all other beings are physical. The main difference between the two types is longevity. Spiritual bodies are immortal, while natural bodies will perish. Also, pain is necessary for natural bodies to recognize when they're in harm's way. Spirits are indestructible, and thus need no pain.
  2. Two separate and distinct physical deaths may befall mankind, but only the first death is a certainty. Every human will die the first death.
  3. And every human who suffers their first death will be resurrected. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting life.
  4. But there will be an order to the resurrections. Christ was resurrected first. All dead believers will be resurrected at the second Coming of Christ, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming.
  5. All Christians living at the time of the Second Coming will be changed into spiritual beings and meet Christ in the air.
  6. At this time, there will be no living human Christians. All will have been born again of the Spirit as spiritual children of God. They will then spend the thousand year Millennium with Christ.
  7. Following the Millennium, all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and instantly perish -- being human. This is their second and everlasting death. They have opted out of life for all eternity.
  8. But their names were not written into the Book of Life prior to their judgment! Everyone with their names written in the Book of Life were born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God at the Second Coming. The Book of Life was cleared at that time. So why check it again?
  9. The only possible reason is that nonbelievers will have the opportunity to accept salvation during the judgment process! The blank Book of Life is reopened at the beginning of judgment so that names may be written into it. The names written into it will be names of nonbeliever who repent and accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment.
Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Consequences: No humans will suffer eternally in the lake of fire. Distraught parents who murder their children in their innocent years in an effort to send them to heaven as they have been taught -- have been deceived! Likewise, the millions of deceived Christians who constantly worry about their unsaved family and loved ones being eternally tortured in the fires of hell can now chill out.

Click here to view the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

I will modify attachments linked to from this post as we debate the issue and find corrections or improvements! Hopefully, we will be led to a good result!

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Post #191

Post by myth-one.com »

Benoni wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Benoni wrote:You totally ignore the three verse I post where man has a spirit.
Actually, the word "Spirit" appears once, and only once, in your posting #182
So what does made in God's image and likeness suppose to mean. That is where i get the word spirit because God is a spirit and we are his sons.
Benoni wrote:So if Adam was not pure Spirit . . .
See it right there on the first line?
??????

Word seven?

What "three verses" are you referring to?

Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

“There is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding� (Job 32:8).

Man is a spirit soul and flesh. When man dies his spirit returns to God who gave it.
Please define what a spirit is.

God is a spirit.

Is man a spirit?

What is a "spirit soul?"

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4069
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Post #192

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 181 by Checkpoint]
So if Adam was not pure Spirit before the seventh day when God formed him from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul what was he????.
God did not form Adam on the seventh day, but "rested from all His work, including the creation of Adam on the sixth day. "

Adam was formed on the sixth day, not a second time but the only time.

It was then that God made man male and female, flesh and blood souls that could thus procreate as one flesh.

They were never made before that, and were never made "pure spirit".

Genesis 2 did not take place after Genesis 1, but is rather a further explanation of the creation of man in the lead up to what is related in Genesis 3.

User avatar
Benoni
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 8:31 am
Location: Wilson NY (Niagara County)

Post #193

Post by Benoni »

[Replying to post 188 by Checkpoint]

Do I need to re-post the book of Genesis again because you do not know what context means?

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4069
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Post #194

Post by Checkpoint »

Benoni wrote: [Replying to post 188 by Checkpoint]

Do I need to re-post the book of Genesis again because you do not know what context means?
No.

Do you know what context means?

It does not mean chronology but may include it, providing it is actual and relevant.

Check any dictionary.

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Post #195

Post by myth-one.com »

Benoni wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Benoni wrote:You totally ignore the three verse I post where man has a spirit.
Actually, the word "Spirit" appears once, and only once, in your posting #182
So what does made in God's image and likeness suppose to mean. That is where i get the word spirit because God is a spirit and we are his sons.
Benoni wrote:So if Adam was not pure Spirit . . .
See it right there on the first line?
??????
Word seven?

What "three verses" are you referring to?
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?

User avatar
Benoni
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 8:31 am
Location: Wilson NY (Niagara County)

Post #196

Post by Benoni »

myth-one.com wrote:
Benoni wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Benoni wrote:You totally ignore the three verse I post where man has a spirit.
Actually, the word "Spirit" appears once, and only once, in your posting #182
So what does made in God's image and likeness suppose to mean. That is where i get the word spirit because God is a spirit and we are his sons.
Benoni wrote:So if Adam was not pure Spirit . . .
See it right there on the first line?
??????
Word seven?

What "three verses" are you referring to?
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?
You do not care you are a JW. A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Post #197

Post by Elijah John »

Benoni wrote:
You do not care you are a JW.
:warning: Moderator Warning


This is a personal attack ("You do not care") AND a blanket statement. Please make your points without the incivility.


Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
Last edited by Elijah John on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Post #198

Post by myth-one.com »

Myth-one.com wrote:
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 wrote:Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?
Benoni wrote:A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.
God is a Spirit. The original "pure Spirit."

Before the fall, you claim Adam was a pure spirit.

If God is a pure spirit and Adam is a pure spirit then Adam and God are equals.

And if God is without "sin and death," then Adam, being equal to God, is also without sin and death.

If Adam is without sin, there could be no "fall."

And if Adam is without death, Adam could not die.

Thus, if "pure spirits" are immune to sin and death, then it is impossible for them to change.

They remain "pure spirits" forever.

And they would all live happily ever after!

User avatar
Benoni
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 8:31 am
Location: Wilson NY (Niagara County)

Post #199

Post by Benoni »

myth-one.com wrote:
Myth-one.com wrote:
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 wrote:Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?
Benoni wrote:A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.
God is a Spirit. The original "pure Spirit."

Before the fall, you claim Adam was a pure spirit.

If God is a pure spirit and Adam is a pure spirit then Adam and God are equals.

And if God is without "sin and death," then Adam, being equal to God, is also without sin and death.

If Adam is without sin, there could be no "fall."

And if Adam is without death, Adam could not die.

Thus, if "pure spirits" are immune to sin and death, then it is impossible for them to change.

They remain "pure spirits" forever.

And they would all live happily ever after!
No one ever said we are equal to God. We are his children... Sons.

Its not a matter what you have been taught it is a matter of what God word tells us.

Look a little deeper at Ps. 82 and notice how the word Elohim was used with both a capital G and lower case; same word same meaning both Strong’s 430 and this has happen all thought out the KJV and who know what other translation.
Ps 82:6-8 6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; (Elohim) you are all sons of the Most High.' 7 But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." 8 Rise up, O God (Elohim) , judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Post #200

Post by myth-one.com »

Benoni wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Myth-one.com wrote:
Ecclesiastes 12: 7 wrote:Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What is the definition of "spirit" used in Ecclesiastes 12: 7?
Benoni wrote:A Spirit is that part of God in each one of us. Adam was a pure spirit before the fall. in other words Adam's body was a spiritual body that is much like our physical body but no sin and death. A spiritual body is what we truly are where this body of flesh is temporary.
God is a Spirit. The original "pure Spirit."

Before the fall, you claim Adam was a pure spirit.

If God is a pure spirit and Adam is a pure spirit then Adam and God are equals.

And if God is without "sin and death," then Adam, being equal to God, is also without sin and death.

If Adam is without sin, there could be no "fall."

And if Adam is without death, Adam could not die.

Thus, if "pure spirits" are immune to sin and death, then it is impossible for them to change.

They remain "pure spirits" forever.

And they would all live happily ever after!
No one ever said we are equal to God. We are his children... Sons.

Its not a matter what you have been taught it is a matter of what God word tells us.
You said Adam was a pure spirit.

God is a Spirit.

Do God and Adam have the same characteristics?

Post Reply