The Solar Eclipse: Coincidence? Or Evidence of Design?

[Volbrigade]

Here in the US, many people are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to observe a total solar eclipse. 14 million people reside in the path of totality. Many more are well within 90% of totality. The entire lower 48 will experience a degree of partiality.

Prompted by an PM exchange with another user, I am reminded of the astronomically small odds that the disc of the moon would fit precisely over the disc of the sun, relative to an observer on earth. This phenomenon allows for observation of the sun’s corona, which is otherwise undetectable to the naked eye. The observation and analysis of the corona led to advancements in the field of spectroscopy by Bunsen, Kirchhoff, Jansen, Huggins, Lockyear, and others. Those advancements, in turn, led to discoveries in astrophysics which have formed our current understanding(s) of the cosmos in which we exist.

Which begs an intriguing question. Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence, comparable in scale to the probability of select amino acids linking up by chance to form proteins, which in turn link together to form a self-replicating code of protein “letters�, in the precise order necessary to code for a living cell, in Earth’s harsh primordial environment, 5 billion years or so ago? And those codes increasing in information content, through unguided cause-and-effect processes, in order to provide the blueprints for all living things?

A coincidence, like the simultaneous linkages of dimensionless constants — e.g., gravity, strong and weak force, electromagnetism — which provide the appearance of “fine tuning� the parameters of the universe? Of which incremental changes to would produce an environment too unstable for the periodic table, and thus the universe as we know it, to exist?

I’m sure the reader can see where I’m going with this. What if the appearance of “fine tuning� is related to the REALITY of fine tuning, by an Agent possessing mind, intelligence, and will, and which exists outside of the space time continuum which is Its (or “His�) creation?

And what if that Agent adjusted countless variables — i.e., the constants referred to; along with such physical factors as solar size, distance from star, axial tilt, position in a “clear� region of its galaxy, etc. — on one particular, specific planet, in order to generate an environment where intelligent life could not only exist, but have a sense of the scope of the cosmos in which it exists?

And what if the synchronicity displayed in a solar eclipse is not mere coincidence, but a deliberate design? The discoveries made possible by it, which have informed our astrophysical awareness, an indication that this universe is “designed� — by its Creator — “to be discovered�?

[Willum]

There are also π x 10^7 seconds in a year, if that helps.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 19 by Volbrigade]

You fail to grasp that that has no relevance to the point.

But it is extremely relevant to the point, as is the fact pointed out earlier that the distance between the Earth and the moon has continuously increased since the moon first formed, and will continue in that direction in the future at the rate of about 3.8 cm per year. So the right conditions for a solar eclipse like the one we are about to enjoy next week are just a result of the current Earth-moon separation and specifics of the moon's orbit, and not connected to anything a supernatural being decided to put in place for that purpose. Or do you believe that this set of conditions happens to coincide with the brief existence of humans on Earth to date because your god of choice set it up that way for entertainment purposes? That would be more in tune with rainbow symbolizations and the like ... pure imagination.

[Justin108]

Is the precise matching of the diameter of the sun and moon, relative to the Earth, just another one of those “happy accidents� — a coincidence

It's not just a coincidence. It's something that was bound to happen eventually. The fact that the moon constantly revolves around the earth and the earth in turn revolves around the sun suggest that, eventually, this perfect alignment would occur. Given enough time, unlikely occurrences become likely occurrences. What are the odds that where you stand in a thunderstorm happens to be the precise spot where lightning strikes? Very very slim. Regardless, people still get hit by lightning sometimes. If the sun aligning with the moon is proof of God, then people getting hit by lightning is proof of Thor.

DtheD -- I think your point inadvertently speaks to Design. God "pulled" -- or "put" -- the Moon in just the right location to perfectly fit over the Sun.

If the moon orbits over every part of earth (which it does), this alignment will happen. God did not have to "put" the moon in a specific place.

Any further away, and all eclipses would be annular; too close, and we could not see the corona.

You realize the moon is drifting away from earth, right? So it is getting further and further away.

Almost as remarkable is the listless attitude of the non-theist, in maintaining an unimpressed "so what?" posture.

Not everyone is as easily impressed as you.

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time.

The fact that there are billions of celestial objects out there means some of them will inevitably align.

No -- to deny, or downplay, the amazing quality of the solar eclipse is an example of an impoverished sense of awe at God's creation. IMO.

Oh ok.

[Justin108]

duplicate

[Monta]

What we see is an example of a theist dismissing counter-arguments, not with evidence-based reasoning, but with an a priori or "self-evident" example of begging the question.

I submit this isn't a scientific debate thread, this is an excuse to brag about Volbrigade's favorite god concept. That he insists we project personable characteristics onto a natural phenomenon also demonstrates his preference to wear rose-tinted glasses that only let in light which shines favorably on his narrative.

Yet I find it interesting that Volbrigade's initial long post gets only
vague criticism without responding to the points made.

Later:
OOPS! I was reading the first page not realising there are more posts..I hide)

[Volbrigade]

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time.

The fact that there are billions of celestial objects out there means some of them will inevitably align.

LOL.

Relative to what observer(s)?

And how many of those alignments do you suppose are "perfect fits"?

And do those observers have cameras? Internet?

[Justin108]

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time.

The fact that there are billions of celestial objects out there means some of them will inevitably align.

LOL.

And do those observers have cameras? Internet?

Ok you're clearly not interested in a serious discussion. I'm not going to waste my time.

[H.sapiens]

Volbrigade is guilty of the classic "Texas Sharpshooter" logical fallacy, shoot holes in the wall of the barn and then move the target to cover the existing holes. All in all, rather unimpressive.

[Kenisaw]

[Replying to post 1 by Volbrigade]

The fact that there are eclipses that do NOT cover the entire disc of the Sun (annular eclipses) pretty much makes this entire OP useless.

Furthermore, the attempt to connect the supposedly long odds of total eclipses with the odds of abiogenesis is even more fruitless. But in order to come up with examples of "fine tuning" to propagate that widely debunked hypothesis, this is the type of rationalizing that is shared with everyone...

[Volbrigade]

By the way -- as an earlier poster showed, in a remarkable photo taken from the Mars rover, celestial objects are aligning all the time.

The fact that there are billions of celestial objects out there means some of them will inevitably align.

LOL.

And do those observers have cameras? Internet?

Ok you're clearly not interested in a serious discussion. I'm not going to waste my time.

My OP is an indication of my willingness to have a "serious discussion".

I'm not sure about yours, though.

Try concentrating a little bit. You say that celestial objects will align...

but with what? If there were a solar system in our galaxy similar to ours -- nine planets (or eight, and a "planetoid") and they all lined up so you could draw a theoretical line from the star, though all of its orbiting planets, simultaneously --

if there were no one there to observe it, then what of it?

Have you and HS (and others) so missed the point in that regard?

As remarkable as it is that God made the moon and the sun ("for signs and seasons"), and put them in space at precisely the right distance so that the former would occlude the latter as if they were cut from the same die --

the truly remarkable thing is that there is someone to observe the phenomenon!

That seems so blatantly, self-evidently obvious, that it doesn't bear mentioning.

And yet what I get from the vaguely materialist secular Whateverist, in this the third or fourth post-Christian generation, is a yawing "so what?"

To me, that is indicative of an impoverished worldview,where the sense of wonder has been evacuated.

For those who are filled with the Spirit of God, though -- "the wonder never ends."

IMO, and all that...