Is there an answer to Islamic terrorism?

[marco]

And so beautiful Barcelona joins the list of cities terrorists have attacked. I don't doubt that there are those who will say America and the West are responsible. One of the terrorists apparently wrote of his desire to kill infidels.

I was in Madrid a few weeks ago and had intended to revisit Barcelona and its busy street, Las Ramblas, where the atrocities occurred. So terror is just a breath away, at least here in Europe.

Is it possible for those who want to kill to be educated if not by impious Westerners by Imams? Are those who want to kill "infidels" already known in their home circles? Obviously the scale of this lunacy will grow and we will hear on our screens the fatuous: "They will not win." But they do.

What can we do to ensure "they will not win"? Should the world convert to Islam, at least nominally?

[bluethread]

Of course we should not convert under threat of violence. What we need to realize is that we have been spoiled for a long time. We have to give up some of the leisure of our societies and be more vigilant. One clear example is our trusting that laws can guarantee compliance. Tests have been done that show stop signs do not make us safer, because of the presumption that everyone is going to stop. It is acceptance of the social contract that increases security. We need to realize that we are only safe when we are in a controlled environment with people we know well. Even then, there is still risk.

[marco]

Of course we should not convert under threat of violence. What we need to realize is that we have been spoiled for a long time. We have to give up some of the leisure of our societies and be more vigilant. One clear example is our trusting that laws can guarantee compliance. Tests have been done that show stop signs do not make us safer, because of the presumption that everyone is going to stop. It is acceptance of the social contract that increases security. We need to realize that we are only safe when we are in a controlled environment with people we know well. Even then, there is still risk.

Ah, yes, bluethread -

If the world was filled with you and me
How safe and happy would we be.


What you say is very true but what can we do about some youths emerging from a crowd and shooting dining children in a café, or about a car driven suddenly into the seats where people are enjoying a meal in the sun or about those who open fire in a theatre?

I am reading that sleepy Finland is now the next to suffer. And when the names of the perpetrators come up, they are non-European, possibly guests we have allowed to enter in their wooden horse. We have not been "spoiled"; our magna cartas, our humanitarian laws, our recognition of free speech came after centuries of stupid wars.

When the barbarians have entered our gates, is there nothing we can do? Do we sit idly in our chairs - like the old Romans who awaited the invading Gauls under Brennus - and let our fellow men be murdered, never issuing a phrase that might offend? We have created our own hell by the good intentions of our laws.

[JP Cusick]

What can we do to ensure "they will not win"? Should the world convert to Islam, at least nominally?

What the west needs to do, and the USA particularly, is to openly admit that we are in the wrong, that we (the USA and the west) are the aggressors and we are the sinners, and of course we need to stop all of our warmongering.

I have no doubt that the great Islamic people would be happy to accept our repentance, but we would still need to make amends too as part of our repentance.

The problem as told in the scripture is that our side does not know the way of peace.

And if we did stop our evils and we start doing right then yes that would be a huge conversion to make peace in the world.

It is not a conversion to any religion - that would be a conversion to righteousness.

[marco]

I have no doubt that the great Islamic people would be happy to accept our repentance, but we would still need to make amends too as part of our repentance.

I don't know if this is a serious suggestion but may I remind you that the people you are saying will welcome peace offerings burn men alive, stone folk, cut people's heads off for being gay and get children to murder others.

Neville Chamberlain had your peace offering idea when he returned from Munich and promised "peace for our time." That was in 1938 and the people he tried to appease went on to kill millions.

And if we did stop our evils and we start doing right then yes that would be a huge conversion to make peace in the world.

America, when it is wrong is better than ISIS when it is right ( if that is possible.) There may be some connection between Sunni killing Shi'ite in the Middle East and jihadists murdering children but it seems utterly absurd to ask the West to say sorry. An ideal solution would be to build a fence around the Middle East and let them get on with their religious bickering. Sadly, poor old Israel would be caught up in the carnage. Unfortunately that solution is no longer possible since the religious combatants have scattered themselves across Europe, some in hired cars.

So, as you say, we should possibly join them and worship Allah, as a peace gesture. But should we become Sunni or Shi'ite ? - the fighting may still go on, you see.

[JP Cusick]

I don't know if this is a serious suggestion but may I remind you that the people you are saying will welcome peace offerings burn men alive, stone folk, cut people's heads off for being gay and get children to murder others.

It is unfair and untrue to judge people based on their actions during our war.

The USA is murdering the Muslims by the hundreds and thousands and by the million and our drone bombs are not a superior form of murder then cutting off a person's head.

I see it as a certain fact that if the USA (and associates) pull out of the Islamic lands then peace will automatically happen like magic.

Neville Chamberlain had your peace offering idea when he returned from Munich and promised "peace for our time." That was in 1938 and the people he tried to appease went on to kill millions.

It is a smear slander given to Chamberlain because the peace deal created by Chamberlain is what destroyed any hope for Hitler and his 3rd Reich, because after Chamberlain then the Allies refused to ever accept any form of peace treaty or armistice because Germany broke the Chamberlain deal.

As such the Chamberlain peace deal doomed Nazi Germany to utter destruction.

There was nothing wrong with Chamberlain making peace - as it was Hitler who broke the deal and that cost Hitler everything.

America, when it is wrong is better than ISIS when it is right ( if that is possible.)

That is a really low standard, and it is horrible that people accept America at our low standards.

America is now the bully warmonger of the entire planet earth.

An ideal solution would be to build a fence around the Middle East and let them get on with their religious bickering. Sadly, poor old Israel would be caught up in the carnage.

So you misunderstand the entire reality.

The USA is the one who crosses over any fence or wall, because we the USA are the invaders.

The "poor little" Jewish State is inside of the same wall because they are invaders too.

So, as you say, we should possibly join them and worship Allah, as a peace gesture. But should we become Sunni or Shi'ite ? - the fighting may still go on, you see.

No one expects us to become Muslim or Islamic, and that is an insane accusation.

The Muslims call us as infidels because we are murderers and thieves and warmongers and sexual deviants - and the Muslims only ask of the west to start acting righteous as Christians and as Jewish.

The west and the USA are infidels (infidelity) to God.

[marco]

The Muslims call us as infidels because we are murderers and thieves and warmongers and sexual deviants - and the Muslims only ask of the west to start acting righteous as Christians and as Jewish.

The west and the USA are infidels (infidelity) to God.

I take it you are employing poetic licence in saying "WE are murderers". If you wish to classify yourself in that way, do so, but let the rest of us remain innocent of murder.

Some Muslims may indeed think America is intent on killing Muslims. I don't. However, it is the objective of many Muslim combatants to spread Islam, not to avenge anything, unless it is the crusades.

You seem not to hear when you are told that Muslims are killing Muslims in Syria. Iran (Muslim theocracy) hates Saudi Arabia (Muslim theocracy). Your simplistic view that America is the Great Satan would earn merit points among the brutes who are indiscriminately killing in the Middle East.

You seem to think that if the world were beautifully Muslim, war would cease. Look around you. I agree that we should have left Iraq and Libya to their own devices; brutal though their leaders were, they kept religious fanaticism under control. Now God is running wild there and spilling poison into Europe. People who kill because a teddy bear is called Muhammad don't make peace with infidels. You are deceived.

[JP Cusick]

I take it you are employing poetic licence in saying "WE are murderers". If you wish to classify yourself in that way, do so, but let the rest of us remain innocent of murder.

I accept my wording of "we are murderers" to be both a declaration and as a true accusation.

I myself am against the USA murdering Muslims around the world but I still share the guilt of murders done by my Country.

As such every person on the western side is guilty of our shared immorality and therefore it is we all who murder.

I do make the accusation that no person on our side is innocent (we are all guilty) of the crimes committed by our different Countries governments.

Some Muslims may indeed think America is intent on killing Muslims. I don't. However, it is the objective of many Muslim combatants to spread Islam, not to avenge anything, unless it is the crusades.

The so called terrorists are not trying to make converts to Islam.

The USA and western Allies are anti-Islam and the only weapon we have are our weapons of murder and destruction.

Thereby our side can only murders Muslims as our weapon, because there are no effective weapons against God's powerful religion of Islam.

How can you see Muslims as avenging the Crusades when the Muslims won the Crusades, as it was a Muslim victory, and so the only side to avenge the Crusades would be the Christians.

You seem not to hear when you are told that Muslims are killing Muslims in Syria.

That is impossible to hear over the excessively loud bombs by the USA and by the American puppets.

I can not see it happening either because of the American bombs and our massive murders which cover up any other activities in those areas.

I reject the American lies and its fake News.

You seem to think that if the world were beautifully Muslim, war would cease.

I did not say that.

What I say is the same as the Muslims say - that if the Christians would start acting like Christ and if the Jews would start acting as decent Jews - then the Muslims would no longer have any reason to fight back against the infidels of God.

[marco]

I myself am against the USA murdering Muslims around the world but I still share the guilt of murders done by my Country.

Do you suppose that Muslims share the guilt of those of their fellow religionists who bomb innocent people? It is extremely noble of you to assume the supposed guilt of your government.

The so called terrorists are not trying to make converts to Islam.

Obviously not - they want dead infidels not live ones. I wonder why you use "so-called?" Are you in doubt?

there are no effective weapons against God's powerful religion of Islam.

We should try education, perhaps.

How can you see Muslims as avenging the Crusades when the Muslims won the Crusades,

It is common for some Muslims to rant about the injustice of Pope Urban's call for a great crusade to win back the Holy Land. Among politically correct individuals the very word, crusade, (it comes from crux meaning cross) is derogatory. The failure, due to the incompetent cooperation of the European leaders, is neither here nor there. The intention to have a crusade offends today almost as much as sketches of Muhammad.

What I say is the same as the Muslims say - that if the Christians would start acting like Christ and if the Jews would start acting as decent Jews - then the Muslims would no longer have any reason to fight back against the infidels of God.

Perhaps belligerent Muslims should start acting like Christ. It is of course ludicrous to think that if Europeans turn the other cheek they will be safe from terrorists. Did you know that some of the devout Muslims fighting against the devout Muslim Bashar al- Assad, killed a 14-year old boy for a simple remark about the Prophet while others enjoyed eating the flesh of captured Muslim soldiers. You forget, too, that your God-fearing folk stone girls to death for sexual misdemeanours. Do you believe these barbaric habits would stop when the West says sorry?

[JP Cusick]

Do you suppose that Muslims share the guilt of those of their fellow religionists who bomb innocent people? It is extremely noble of you to assume the supposed guilt of your government.

They do not have guilt about killing innocent people because our western side is not innocent.

All Americans and allies are guilty and none of us are innocent.

The Muslims have every right to fight back against the violent invaders.

I wonder why you use "so-called?" Are you in doubt?

I just see it as absurd to call people based on our terror.

Just because our side gets terrorized then that does not make the resistance as terrorist.

So if we stop being frightened and we start being brave then shall we call them as = those who build courage.

there are no effective weapons against God's powerful religion of Islam.

We should try education, perhaps.

We could try educating our side - as in taking the stick out of our own eye so then we could see clearly.

Educate our side with = Thou shalt not murder.

How can you see Muslims as avenging the Crusades when the Muslims won the Crusades,

Really and truly = the Muslims won against the Crusaders.

After that the Holy Lands remained in peace for some 700 years until 1917 when the white Christian invaders crusaded once again.