Science and the Holocaust

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

Moderator: Moderators

Kenisaw
Guru
Posts: 2052
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: St Louis, MO, USA
Been thanked: 3 times

Science and the Holocaust

Post #1

Post by Kenisaw »

It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?

Justin108
Banned
Banned
Posts: 4471
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:28 am

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #2

Post by Justin108 »

Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?
Blaming science for the Holocaust is like blaming rocks for stonings. Science is amoral. It is what we do with it that matters. If the Nazis didn't use gas chambers, they would have killed the Jews in other ways. Would anyone have blamed ropes if the Jews were all hanged instead? Would they have blamed gravity of they were all pushed down a cliff?

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 8748
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: The formerly Great US of A
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #3

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 2 by Justin108]

Apparently the success with human experimentation on aboriginals in Australia was to a degree responsible for that portion of the holocaust.

That was something surprising. Was it science?

Yeach! What a question.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 6072
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 61 times
Contact:

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #4

Post by William »

Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?
Science is a method. Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.

Science did not target the Jews. Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened.

User avatar
DrNoGods
Guru
Posts: 1282
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:18 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #5

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to post 4 by William]
Science did not target the Jews. Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened.


The intent to kill massive number of Jews was the cause of the Holocaust, along with a group of people (Nazi's) and their leader (Hitler) who had obtained control of the government and military of Germany which allowed them to follow through on that intent. That they utilized certain scientific advancements to maximize the shear number of people that were exterminated had nothing to do with the source of their fundamental intent. That is like saying that science is the cause of the JFK assassination because it was carried out using a modern rifle. If the Nazi's had no access to industrial scale crematoria or gas chamber poisons they may have killed fewer Jews, but the Holocaust would have still happened using whatever methods they did have available. Science did not create or enable the Holocaust ... that was the result of a Nazi plan to eliminate as many Jews as possible, and it would have happened with or without science.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown..
Carl Sagan

The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain

User avatar
H.sapiens
Guru
Posts: 2043
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:08 pm
Location: Ka'u Hawaii

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #6

Post by H.sapiens »

Justin108 wrote:
Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?
Blaming science for the Holocaust is like blaming rocks for stonings. Science ismoral. It is what we do with it that matters. If the Nazis didn't use gas chambers, they would have killed the Jews in other ways. Would anyone have blamed ropes if the Jews were all hanged instead? Would they have blamed gravity of they were all pushed down a cliff?
Christians like Hitler and co. were killing Jews long before the 20thh century.

Kenisaw
Guru
Posts: 2052
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: St Louis, MO, USA
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #7

Post by Kenisaw »

William wrote:
Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?
Science is a method. Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.

Science did not target the Jews. Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened.
Scientists don't make things, engineers do. There are also plenty of people who are most definitely NOT engineers that make things too for that matter.

Scientists did not use science in order to discover ways to kill Jews. That is a ludicrous and baseless assertion...

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 6072
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 61 times
Contact:

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #8

Post by William »

[Replying to post 7 by Kenisaw]
Scientists don't make things, engineers do. There are also plenty of people who are most definitely NOT engineers that make things too for that matter.
I said:
Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.
'Others' includes, as you say, engineers, etc. et al. Scientists are included in that recipe, and without them, the 'others' couldn't have done what was done.

Kenisaw
Guru
Posts: 2052
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:41 pm
Location: St Louis, MO, USA
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #9

Post by Kenisaw »

William wrote: [Replying to post 7 by Kenisaw]
Scientists don't make things, engineers do. There are also plenty of people who are most definitely NOT engineers that make things too for that matter.
I said:
Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.
'Others' includes, as you say, engineers, etc. et al. Scientists are included in that recipe, and without them, the 'others' couldn't have done what was done.
You ALSO said: "Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened."

(Bold added by me)

Reads to me like scientists were purposefully trying to find ways to enable the Holocaust, which we all know is nonsense.

Again, scientists do NOT "(together with others) use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened." Scientists don't make things. For the umpteenth time, engineers do.

You seem determined to blame scientists for the Holocaust, and that makes zero sense.

Wootah
Savant
Posts: 7591
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Science and the Holocaust

Post #10

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 1 by Kenisaw]

Many people believed in eugenics and felt that genocide was scientifically justified. Just like many now think that due to climate change we should genocide much of the planet.

However science follows the truth and we should simply stop using science to justify our actions because we know that the science might change.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Edit preferences to remove all the fluff: ucp.php?i=ucp_prefs&mode=view

Post Reply