Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Science and the Holocaust
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2117
- Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:41 pm
- Location: St Louis, MO, USA
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 61 times
Science and the Holocaust
Post #1It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #2Blaming science for the Holocaust is like blaming rocks for stonings. Science is amoral. It is what we do with it that matters. If the Nazis didn't use gas chambers, they would have killed the Jews in other ways. Would anyone have blamed ropes if the Jews were all hanged instead? Would they have blamed gravity of they were all pushed down a cliff?Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
- Willum
- Savant
- Posts: 9017
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
- Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
- Has thanked: 35 times
- Been thanked: 82 times
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #3[Replying to post 2 by Justin108]
Apparently the success with human experimentation on aboriginals in Australia was to a degree responsible for that portion of the holocaust.
That was something surprising. Was it science?
Yeach! What a question.
Apparently the success with human experimentation on aboriginals in Australia was to a degree responsible for that portion of the holocaust.
That was something surprising. Was it science?
Yeach! What a question.
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14186
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #4Science is a method. Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Science did not target the Jews. Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened.
- DrNoGods
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2716
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:18 pm
- Location: Nevada
- Has thanked: 593 times
- Been thanked: 1642 times
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #5[Replying to post 4 by William]
The intent to kill massive number of Jews was the cause of the Holocaust, along with a group of people (Nazi's) and their leader (Hitler) who had obtained control of the government and military of Germany which allowed them to follow through on that intent. That they utilized certain scientific advancements to maximize the shear number of people that were exterminated had nothing to do with the source of their fundamental intent. That is like saying that science is the cause of the JFK assassination because it was carried out using a modern rifle. If the Nazi's had no access to industrial scale crematoria or gas chamber poisons they may have killed fewer Jews, but the Holocaust would have still happened using whatever methods they did have available. Science did not create or enable the Holocaust ... that was the result of a Nazi plan to eliminate as many Jews as possible, and it would have happened with or without science.
Science did not target the Jews. Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened.
The intent to kill massive number of Jews was the cause of the Holocaust, along with a group of people (Nazi's) and their leader (Hitler) who had obtained control of the government and military of Germany which allowed them to follow through on that intent. That they utilized certain scientific advancements to maximize the shear number of people that were exterminated had nothing to do with the source of their fundamental intent. That is like saying that science is the cause of the JFK assassination because it was carried out using a modern rifle. If the Nazi's had no access to industrial scale crematoria or gas chamber poisons they may have killed fewer Jews, but the Holocaust would have still happened using whatever methods they did have available. Science did not create or enable the Holocaust ... that was the result of a Nazi plan to eliminate as many Jews as possible, and it would have happened with or without science.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #6Christians like Hitler and co. were killing Jews long before the 20thh century.Justin108 wrote:Blaming science for the Holocaust is like blaming rocks for stonings. Science ismoral. It is what we do with it that matters. If the Nazis didn't use gas chambers, they would have killed the Jews in other ways. Would anyone have blamed ropes if the Jews were all hanged instead? Would they have blamed gravity of they were all pushed down a cliff?Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2117
- Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:41 pm
- Location: St Louis, MO, USA
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 61 times
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #7Scientists don't make things, engineers do. There are also plenty of people who are most definitely NOT engineers that make things too for that matter.William wrote:Science is a method. Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.Kenisaw wrote: It was posted in another Science and Religion thread recently:
Question: Is science at all responsible for the Holocaust? Did science specifically target Jews?That you understand the import of your and every other individual human being on the face of the planet, that interpretation of science is not always in favor of that same importance, as - for example, the Holocaust, in which science was at the forefront making real, that imposed tragedy, and without the scientists the 'dumpsters' used to dispose of the so-called useless subjective human individual victims could never have been created for that use.
Science did not target the Jews. Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened.
Scientists did not use science in order to discover ways to kill Jews. That is a ludicrous and baseless assertion...
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14186
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 912 times
- Been thanked: 1644 times
- Contact:
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #8[Replying to post 7 by Kenisaw]
I said:Scientists don't make things, engineers do. There are also plenty of people who are most definitely NOT engineers that make things too for that matter.
'Others' includes, as you say, engineers, etc. et al. Scientists are included in that recipe, and without them, the 'others' couldn't have done what was done.Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2117
- Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:41 pm
- Location: St Louis, MO, USA
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 61 times
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #9You ALSO said: "Certain types of human beings did that, and without scientists using science for such purposes, the Holocaust could not have happened."William wrote: [Replying to post 7 by Kenisaw]
I said:Scientists don't make things, engineers do. There are also plenty of people who are most definitely NOT engineers that make things too for that matter.
'Others' includes, as you say, engineers, etc. et al. Scientists are included in that recipe, and without them, the 'others' couldn't have done what was done.Scientists are those who interpret what is discovered through the method and - together with others, use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened.
(Bold added by me)
Reads to me like scientists were purposefully trying to find ways to enable the Holocaust, which we all know is nonsense.
Again, scientists do NOT "(together with others) use the knowledge to create/make real those things which without, the Holocaust could not have happened." Scientists don't make things. For the umpteenth time, engineers do.
You seem determined to blame scientists for the Holocaust, and that makes zero sense.
-
OnlineWootah
- Savant
- Posts: 9199
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 108 times
Re: Science and the Holocaust
Post #10[Replying to post 1 by Kenisaw]
Many people believed in eugenics and felt that genocide was scientifically justified. Just like many now think that due to climate change we should genocide much of the planet.
However science follows the truth and we should simply stop using science to justify our actions because we know that the science might change.
Many people believed in eugenics and felt that genocide was scientifically justified. Just like many now think that due to climate change we should genocide much of the planet.
However science follows the truth and we should simply stop using science to justify our actions because we know that the science might change.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."