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KingandPriest
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:52 pm  Is "being born this way" an acceptable justificati Reply with quote

An all to common argument I have heard to support homosexuality or transgender-ism is the concept of being born this way. As a Christian I could relate to the concept of being born with a proclivity towards a certain activity which may lead to sin.

Recently, I heard a discussion which reminded me of one of my undergraduate law courses. This was years ago, so I apologize if I do not present as good an argument as this professor. In the course, the professor argued for maintaining the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman because in the court of law, setting a legal precedence on one matter can lead to unintended applications of the decision later on.

As we know, the law is tricky in that a judge may be forced to rule one way based on precedence rather than fairness or equity. To this end, the professor argued that if the law was changed (as it has been today) because one judge or a few judges deemed it acceptable to broaden the definition of marriage, then a precedent could be set for future changes resulting in "undesired effects."

This now leads to the conversation on being "born this way." When a person is making an argument from the position of being "born this way" are they arguing that any person who is born with certain attractions should be allowed to love who ever they wish?

I ask, because many individuals who are currently considered sexual pedophiles can argue that they were born this way, and were attracted to younger people since they were a child. Is it wrong to condemn these individuals for their attractions but praise or support an individual who has homosexual feelings?

If the only answer is because they are breaking the law, then it is fair to argue that homosexuality was once illegal in many nations in the world. Is is possible that a precedent has been set to allow those who were once demonized and criminalized as pedophiles to join the LGBT community, as another misunderstood and rejected people group?

Why treat those who have been "born with a attraction" to the same sex differently from those who have been "born with an attraction" to a younger individual?


In some places, consent for marriage can occur as young as 13. Could those individuals who desire to have relationships and marriage to 13 year old, use the precedent of changing the definition of marriage to expand the parameters on consent as well?

What about being born with an attraction towards animals, or physical objects? The porn industry is evidence that people have these desires. Should they be allowed to marry what they love as well? In short, the professor argued that the court of law does not ask, "where does it end" if precedent has been set and no new laws are written.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 111: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:15 am
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[Replying to KingandPriest]

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. I pointed out that by pointing to original intent of God, this eliminated all other possible variances.


In your opinion. This is opinion, not fact. The original intent can be interpreted more than one way and is ambiguous towards the issue.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 112: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:20 am
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[Replying to post 110 by KingandPriest]

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Yes, you can interpret it different ways if you ignore what was said. If you input statements or change what was written, then yes you can arrive at what ever interpretation suites you.

Note I did not ignore what was written, input statements, or change what was written to arrive at a different conclusion.

Note you inferred a different conclusion outside what was written based on ypur opinion of what was intended.

Note there is no specific prohibition of gay marriage or polygamy in this verse.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 113: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:15 pm
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DanieltheDragon wrote:

[Replying to post 110 by KingandPriest]

Quote:

Yes, you can interpret it different ways if you ignore what was said. If you input statements or change what was written, then yes you can arrive at what ever interpretation suites you.

Note I did not ignore what was written, input statements, or change what was written to arrive at a different conclusion.

Note you inferred a different conclusion outside what was written based on ypur opinion of what was intended.

Note there is no specific prohibition of gay marriage or polygamy in this verse.

There is also no specific prohibition to a person marrying an animal. Do you contend this is acceptable or supported by this verse? If so, please explain the connection to the rest of us.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 114: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:30 pm
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KingandPriest wrote:

DanieltheDragon wrote:

[Replying to post 110 by KingandPriest]

Quote:

Yes, you can interpret it different ways if you ignore what was said. If you input statements or change what was written, then yes you can arrive at what ever interpretation suites you.

Note I did not ignore what was written, input statements, or change what was written to arrive at a different conclusion.

Note you inferred a different conclusion outside what was written based on ypur opinion of what was intended.

Note there is no specific prohibition of gay marriage or polygamy in this verse.

There is also no specific prohibition to a person marrying an animal. Do you contend this is acceptable or supported by this verse? If so, please explain the connection to the rest of us.


Why would I contend that it is acceptable or supported by this verse?

My position specifically is that this verse does not spell out any prohibitions other than those who are married should not be divorced.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 115: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:28 pm
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DanieltheDragon wrote:

KingandPriest wrote:

DanieltheDragon wrote:

[Replying to post 110 by KingandPriest]

Quote:

Yes, you can interpret it different ways if you ignore what was said. If you input statements or change what was written, then yes you can arrive at what ever interpretation suites you.

Note I did not ignore what was written, input statements, or change what was written to arrive at a different conclusion.

Note you inferred a different conclusion outside what was written based on ypur opinion of what was intended.

Note there is no specific prohibition of gay marriage or polygamy in this verse.

There is also no specific prohibition to a person marrying an animal. Do you contend this is acceptable or supported by this verse? If so, please explain the connection to the rest of us.


Why would I contend that it is acceptable or supported by this verse?

My position specifically is that this verse does not spell out any prohibitions other than those who are married should not be divorced.

So using this logic, the verse does not prohibit marrying an animal. Why do you stop short?

You attempt to use the verse to suit your perspective rather than allow the truth to speak for itself.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 116: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:54 pm
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KingandPriest wrote:

DanieltheDragon wrote:

KingandPriest wrote:

DanieltheDragon wrote:

[Replying to post 110 by KingandPriest]

Quote:

Yes, you can interpret it different ways if you ignore what was said. If you input statements or change what was written, then yes you can arrive at what ever interpretation suites you.

Note I did not ignore what was written, input statements, or change what was written to arrive at a different conclusion.

Note you inferred a different conclusion outside what was written based on ypur opinion of what was intended.

Note there is no specific prohibition of gay marriage or polygamy in this verse.

There is also no specific prohibition to a person marrying an animal. Do you contend this is acceptable or supported by this verse? If so, please explain the connection to the rest of us.


Why would I contend that it is acceptable or supported by this verse?

My position specifically is that this verse does not spell out any prohibitions other than those who are married should not be divorced.

So using this logic, the verse does not prohibit marrying an animal. Why do you stop short?

You attempt to use the verse to suit your perspective rather than allow the truth to speak for itself.

What perspective is that. I am simply not willing to go beyond what is written. I did not say this verse supports gay marriage or polygamy. I simply pointed out that your position that it prohibits gay marriage and polygamy is an inference on your part.

I stopped at gay marriage and polygamy because that is as far as you went. Your right in that this verse does not prohibit marrying animals computer cars or food. how is that relevant to your case that there is a bible standard and this verse probhibits gay marriage and polygamy?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 117: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:08 pm
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I'm not really sure why this is even still an argument. People are going to interpret it how they wanna. I could say, "I have a dog." and these people would try to find a way to bend that into it meaning I own a cat if it meant they could have a reason to win an argument. The words of the Bible are plainly written for all to be able to read and comprehend. There is no dispute over whats written and what it means. Theres only people who want and will warp and misconstrue words to fit what they want. How can some people who are Christian claim to accept same sex marriage? Because they either don't know what is true or they know and like many here don't care and will by any means lie to themselves to have things their way.

One man one woman, and even if you wanna say it can be any number of men and women its never man and man or woman and woman. Thats it. Its not about what I want or dont want' its about whats written. When people cant even agree on plain language like that you know something is wrong. Best thing I can say is try not to be on the wrong side because "Woe to those..."

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 118: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:22 pm
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[Replying to post 117 by MuffMaYne]

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The words of the Bible are plainly written for all to be able to read and comprehend. There is no dispute over whats written and what it means.



People can't decide on which manuscripts to choose for translations. Those who agree on specific manuscripts don't always agree on the translations. Those who agree on the translations and manuscripts don't always agree on the intent or meaning. This is before we even get to those that agree on biblical literalism. There is over 40,000 denominations. How therefore can you stand before me and say it is plainly written and there is no dispute over what is written. if what you say is true there should only be one bible untranslated and one denomination. This is simply not the case.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 119: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:16 pm
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MuffMaYne wrote:

I'm not really sure why this is even still an argument. People are going to interpret it how they wanna. I could say, "I have a dog." and these people would try to find a way to bend that into it meaning I own a cat if it meant they could have a reason to win an argument. The words of the Bible are plainly written for all to be able to read and comprehend. There is no dispute over whats written and what it means.


Leviticus 25: " 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever"

That is written pretty plainly, wouldn't you say? You got any slaves? Why not?

Quote:
Theres only people who want and will warp and misconstrue words to fit what they want. How can some people who are Christian claim to accept same sex marriage?


Or get haircuts, or wear clothes of mixed fabric, or have tattoos. Do you ever protest outside barber shops?

Quote:
Because they either don't know what is true or they know and like many here don't care and will by any means lie to themselves to have things their way.


Is anything I've said so far a "lie"?

Quote:
One man one woman, and even if you wanna say it can be any number of men and women its never man and man or woman and woman. Thats it. Its not about what I want or dont want' its about whats written. When people cant even agree on plain language like that you know something is wrong. Best thing I can say is try not to be on the wrong side because "Woe to those..."


2 Kings 2: "23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

Plain language, indeed...

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