Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

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Kenisaw
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Re: Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

Post #41

Post by Kenisaw »

bluethread wrote:
Kenisaw wrote:
bluethread wrote: Based on the concept of omniscience, many claim the plain language of the Scriptures should be scientifically accurate. So, if there were a verse that said that the Sun is the center of the solar system, would that make it acceptable on that basis?
That statement would be scientifically accurate, and therefore that verse would be scientifically accurate.
Thank you. It is good to see there is someone who knows how to answer a direct question. Now, let me ask why you accept this as scientifically accurate, since scientifically there is no precise center of the solar system? Every planet orbits a different point, none of which are static, but constantly in motion due to the various competing gravitational forces in the solar system. Admittedly, most of those moving points remain within the diameter of the sun. However, the point orbited by Jupiter is some 46,000 km beyond the surface of the sun. So, if one where a scientist on Jupiter, it could be said that, along with Jupiter, the sun orbits that point. Wouldn't that disqualify the OP statement, in the same way that other scientific inaccuracies are seen as something someone with perfect knowledge would not say?
A scientist on Jupiter wouldn't say that, because (assuming they have the same understanding that we do at this time) they would know that the Sun contains 98 percent of the mass of the solar system, and they would be able to see that the remaining 2 percent moves around the Sun in various elliptical orbits. They would know that the exact barycenter of the Solar System is not at the exact center of the Sun (but often within it's 1.4 million km diameter) as well. Even when being extremely precise one would state that the Sun is the center since the gravitational center often resides inside it's limits. They don't call it a solar system for nothing.

If you have a specific example of something the Bible does actually say, but that atheists refute because it's close but not technically right, then bring it forth. Otherwise this exercise in semantics doesn't seem to be leading anywhere...

evilsorcerer1
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yhwh super smart

Post #42

Post by evilsorcerer1 »

I don't think yhwh was super smart, but I do agree he seems super smart. But I think the reason is he wasn't real but thought up from generations of bible scholars studying. There are too many types and symbolism for the story to have happened. To start in genesis the first 10 chapters, which I've studied quite a bit, are confusing. . the author says god said 'let there be light' on the first day and then I believe on the fourth day god placed stars, the sun and the moon. So the author had no idea how the universe was really created. . . . . And it seems the new testament books were written in a particular order,according to jacob's prophecy concerning his sons. . . . lots of references to levi, simeon, judah tribes. . . simon peter, judas iscariot, son of simon, john the baptist from the tribe of levi. .
. . . And it's as if they weren't real people but symbols of al the last generation of the elect, whose death and extinction they believed would trigger the apocalypse.
. Jesus called peter satan, satan entered judas; . . jesus overturned the vendors tables in the synagogue (I'm sure money was thrown on the ground), judas threw the silver on the temple floor, they both killed themselves. . . . john was elijah, several days after john was beheaded elijah appeared with moses. . . . I think sons may mean of, as in j is son of g, a step below in hardness. . . . and people don't know that because they believed the tower of babel story {which was written to cover the author's motives} . .
. . . a few final notes- in genesis lamech says he killed a man and if revenge for killing cain would be taken 7 fold his killer would receive 77 fold. . . then in tbe genealogy of adam it says lamech lived to 777. . So I'm sure the ages represent something else. . . . {very small part of my word study-cain, cane, rod, canine, canes leave marks, mark of the beast is 666, 6th day god created man and beast; lamech backwards could be camel, semel {a mark or seal}... I've found a lot on order of names and words corresponding with alphabet orders {greek, hebrew, and english}; . I haven't studied a lot but I think there may be a link between 666 and references to three days and three nights throughout the bible {resurrection, belly of whale} . . because in in one gospel it says jesus would rise again in three days and three nights and in another only 3 days. . . so the confusion may have been their confusion about who the son of god is supposed to be. . . . if jesus was the sun then he would have died one day (set), stayed down that night (day 2) and risen again on the 3rd day. . . . but early man probably thought god was light from the sun. . . It was also written a flaming sword which turned all ways was placed around the garden which probably represented the sun and man's belief the sun rotated around the earth; . . . But if god was gold {l would be line around the atmosphere}, who is jesus? That would make the savior silver, which was the moon. . and since the cherubim near the garden were also the moon {different shapes, different cherubim} he was also the Angel of the Lord {head of angels, full moon} . . . .

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answer

Post #43

Post by evilsorcerer1 »

[Replying to post 39 by Justin108]

I just want to say I'm not one of those perverts who goes around saying people are child molesters because that's sick. Why would I support 7.5 billion people {babies included} who kill each other, blow each other up, and then say they're protecting each other {they're protecting each other's right to slaughter each other, and leaving me in the middle} . . . That's not child molesting, it's worse. . . because they're standing behind 7. 5 billion babies, children, people who want to kill and then tell how they're crazy religion of animal sacrifice gives them forgiveness. . . . . . that's not saving people, that's blowing appx 15% of them away, shortening the rest to between on average 50 and 80 years (most of whom deserved to die because they claim they can be forgiven and are helping people die). Babies, children, people in general aren't being molested, they're helping and getting away with it. And to the moderators who say I'm being out of line: I'm one of the few people who's not a loud mouth in a world full of them You don't know what it's like watching people saluting the flag, dropping bombs and telling their wonderful stories about how they just saved a poor baby orphan (right after dropping a bomb on a city). And the sad part isn't that people are dying, it's that {1} not enough of them are dying, {2} they're taking me with them, {3} they're complete idiots who can't make the connection they're not saving babies, except the fact that most people and babies don't even deserve to be here. So to the moderators, when you stop every last baby from getting a penis shoved up their butt and thrown in a ditch {which isn't even possible because they're not running that fast, and in the wrong direction} then maybe you could talk. But look around, your not a savior, you're a monster (I was talking about myself being mistreated not the babies) . . . . And if you want to claim you have some kind of true religion I'd love to debate. . . and I can shred the bible to a zillion pieces every day. . . . . and if I'm right 'and I am', and if none or less than 1/00 of a percent are not condemned. . . . then all death is the same, then you've got a lot worse problems than having sex with babies. . . You'll be like me, begging for the babies and the rest of the world's perverted guts to be scattered all over the planet everytime someone costs you a millionth of a second {and I've lost a lot}. And we live in a world everyone's touching you by their lifestyle. . . . .

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Post #44

Post by otseng »

evilsorcerer1 wrote: So to the moderators, when you stop every last baby from getting a penis shoved up their butt and thrown in a ditch
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rikuoamero
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Re: Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

Post #45

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 28 by bluethread]
However, the point orbited by Jupiter is some 46,000 km beyond the surface of the sun. So, if one where a scientist on Jupiter, it could be said that, along with Jupiter, the sun orbits that point.
Old thread I know, but can I ask you what exactly you mean here? Off hand, Jupiter NEVER gets that close to the sun. Mercury is the closest planet to the sun, and that's about 58 million kilometres. Jupiter is the fifth planet out, and is so far that light takes a whole 43 minutes to get to it from the sun.
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Re: Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

Post #46

Post by bluethread »

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 28 by bluethread]
However, the point orbited by Jupiter is some 46,000 km beyond the surface of the sun. So, if one where a scientist on Jupiter, it could be said that, along with Jupiter, the sun orbits that point.
Old thread I know, but can I ask you what exactly you mean here? Off hand, Jupiter NEVER gets that close to the sun. Mercury is the closest planet to the sun, and that's about 58 million kilometres. Jupiter is the fifth planet out, and is so far that light takes a whole 43 minutes to get to it from the sun.
I mean that even though a basic astronomy book would say that Jupiter orbits the sun, that is not precisely correct. It orbits a moving point some 46,000 kilometers outside the surface of the Sun. In relation to Jupiter, the Sun also orbits that point. The fact is that the Sun is not a stationary object in our solar system. There is a kind of astronomical dance that takes place with the Sun and the planets pulling on one another, resulting in the center of the dance floor being moving around and in a different place for each partner.

My point is that if one requires communication from a deity to be accurate, what would be accurate enough to satisfy the detractors. Is it really necessary for a deity to reveal to a child the information I have just presented, or is it sufficient to just reveal that the Sun is pretty much in the center of our solar system and the planets circle around that general area?

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rikuoamero
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Re: Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

Post #47

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 45 by bluethread]
It orbits a moving point some 46,000 kilometers outside the surface of the Sun.
Apologies but can you clarify? I tried typing in Jupiter 46,000 and got nothing on Google.
The fact is that the Sun is not a stationary object in our solar system.
Yes, I know this.
My point is that if one requires communication from a deity to be accurate, what would be accurate enough to satisfy the detractors.
How about something that is not false, something that is shown to be not inaccurate via other means? For example, we can take Genesis and/or Exodus. Scientific research indicates that there was no genetic bottleneck some 4,000 years ago, thus falsifying the claim that most life forms were wiped out in a world wide flood.
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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bluethread
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Re: Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

Post #48

Post by bluethread »

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 45 by bluethread]
It orbits a moving point some 46,000 kilometers outside the surface of the Sun.
Apologies but can you clarify? I tried typing in Jupiter 46,000 and got nothing on Google.
Try barycenter in Wikipedia.

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rikuoamero
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Re: Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

Post #49

Post by rikuoamero »

bluethread wrote:
rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 45 by bluethread]
It orbits a moving point some 46,000 kilometers outside the surface of the Sun.
Apologies but can you clarify? I tried typing in Jupiter 46,000 and got nothing on Google.
Try barycenter in Wikipedia.
I did and there is a table giving a barycenter for Jupiter...but not 46,000 km.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter
I'm looking at the table listed "Primary Secondary Examples
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Scientifc accuracy in the Scriptures.

Post #50

Post by Monta »

bluethread wrote:
H.sapiens wrote: [Replying to post 4 by bluethread]

No it would not. It was not a revelation since there were a number of cultures that understood that as every day common knowledge.
I am not addressing how we got the information. I am asking whether the information is sufficient to pass the a deity would know better test. That is that, if there is anything attributed to a deity, it must be scientifically accurate.
The question is whether you'd have the science to test it.
If the answer is yes, we have to ask is it science of 100 ys ago, science of 2017, 4017, 5017.. 10017...?

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