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man
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:23 pm  Without God Life Has No Purpose Reply with quote

I Googled that phrase and came up with this.

https://www.google.com/#q=without+god+life+has+no+purpose

This is what religious people are being taught by their leaders. So we have all these people walking around thinking that there is an empty hole inside them that can only be filled by god and without god there lives have no purpose or meaning.

The thing that strikes me as being strange is I have always regarded all religions as myth and I am not a believer of any of them, but at the same time I don't have this empty hole inside me they talk about. I have never felt that my life has no purpose or meaning and in fact all of the things that these religious people say I need don't ever even cross my mind.

There is so much interesting REAL stuff to learn that I am so busy reading, working or doing whatever I happen to be interested in at the moment to have time to even think about this hole I am supposed to have inside me that I can't find. If anything I need a bigger hole to fit all of the things that I occupy myself with, my hole runneth over!

Anyway, I started thinking about teaching people that nonsense and it struck me as being a cruel thing to do. It's tantamount to saying, hey there is something wrong with you (when there isn't) and then telling them that you have the cure.

The phrase snake oil salesman comes to mind.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 51: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:27 pm
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I'm not going to read the whole thread, so for those who support "Without God Life Has no Purpose", by purpose do you mean some task or duty that is given to mortal humans by God? If so, what happens after that task or duty is performed? Is one's life meaningless then?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 52: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:43 am
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[Replying to post 42 by Wissing]

" In communist Russia, the influence of Christianity was intentionally extinguished, meaning we have a clear example of what society looks like in Jesus' absence. (Not to say he was absent in Spirit, but he was absent in official and measurable ways). Nicolas Zernov shows this in a table showing the number of churches, monasteries, priests, deacons, etc, before and during communism, which I've reproduced partially below [2],
Quote:

............. year 1917 ............. year 1941
Churches....... 1710 ....................... 2
Monasteries..... 23 ......................... 0
Priests........... 1435 ....................... 3
Deacons........... 277 ...................... 1 "

With insane hatred against religion, Bolsevics did not bring in new order of peace and justice for all, they had to destroy and destroy.
Surely the world atheists would recognize the insanity of this behavior and condemn it, or given a chance would they behave the same way?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 53: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:06 am
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Monta wrote:

[Replying to post 42 by Wissing]

" In communist Russia, the influence of Christianity was intentionally extinguished, meaning we have a clear example of what society looks like in Jesus' absence. (Not to say he was absent in Spirit, but he was absent in official and measurable ways). Nicolas Zernov shows this in a table showing the number of churches, monasteries, priests, deacons, etc, before and during communism, which I've reproduced partially below [2],
Quote:

............. year 1917 ............. year 1941
Churches....... 1710 ....................... 2
Monasteries..... 23 ......................... 0
Priests........... 1435 ....................... 3
Deacons........... 277 ...................... 1 "

With insane hatred against religion, Bolsevics did not bring in new order of peace and justice for all, they had to destroy and destroy.
Surely the world atheists would recognize the insanity of this behavior and condemn it, or given a chance would they behave the same way?


By that logic, are you consistent enough to lay the blame then on religion for the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials and the Dark Ages?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 54: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:30 am
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KenRU wrote:

Monta wrote:

[Replying to post 42 by Wissing]

" In communist Russia, the influence of Christianity was intentionally extinguished, meaning we have a clear example of what society looks like in Jesus' absence. (Not to say he was absent in Spirit, but he was absent in official and measurable ways). Nicolas Zernov shows this in a table showing the number of churches, monasteries, priests, deacons, etc, before and during communism, which I've reproduced partially below [2],
Quote:

............. year 1917 ............. year 1941
Churches....... 1710 ....................... 2
Monasteries..... 23 ......................... 0
Priests........... 1435 ....................... 3
Deacons........... 277 ...................... 1 "

With insane hatred against religion, Bolsevics did not bring in new order of peace and justice for all, they had to destroy and destroy.
Surely the world atheists would recognize the insanity of this behavior and condemn it, or given a chance would they behave the same way?


By that logic, are you consistent enough to lay the blame then on religion for the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials and the Dark Ages?


Can we first make a response to this question before going to the next?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 55: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:37 am
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man wrote:

So we have all these people walking around thinking that there is an empty hole inside them that can only be filled by god and without god there lives have no purpose or meaning.

I don't have this empty hole inside me they talk about. I have never felt that my life has no purpose or meaning ...

It's tantamount to saying, hey there is something wrong with you (when there isn't) and then telling them that you have the cure.
[ Re: Without God Life Has No Purpose ]

The point is that religion gives us a far higher purpose in life, and religion gives us insight into the purpose, and yet people can live in lower levels as most people do, so without having a real connection with the Father God then people do miss out of the bigger purposes and that is the point.

It is a common mistake to view our self living a righteous life as our purpose because that is just our basic job and not our true purpose.

As like a student in school gets all "A's and B's" and doing their work of getting the high grades is the student's job - it is not their purpose.

The same in life to live morally upright and have a happy marriage and raise healthy children and follow our profession - all of this is our job - those are not our destiny nor our purpose in life.

The view that = I get good grades, I live a good life, I do good things, - all of that is just being self righteous.

The higher purposes from our Father is far above our basic struggles in living right and of being human.

When Jesus got crucified then that was His job - it was not His purpose.

Any person who gets closer to God will thereby generate a greater purpose from the Father.

See Luke 12:48b "... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:
and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
"

No one has just one (1) purpose, as each person has thousands of purposes throughout our lives, and most people have no comprehension of fulfilling their own higher purposes, and the purposes of God are always fulfilled.

What we do know is that some few people will fulfill such huge big purposes that they become visible and historical.

As like Abe Lincoln found his purpose under brutal circumstances, the Mahatma Gandhi who kept trying to change his purpose, Mother Teresa who found a purpose inside another purpose, General Patton who knew his purpose before it happened, Martin Luther King who surely did not choose his own purpose, and this list are aside from the truly greatest ones like the Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, Lao Tzu.

It is true that an Atheist will fulfill some high purposes of the Father, but it is a defect or a handicap to not have the knowledge of the God who orchestrates their purposes.

Knowledge is power - so correct knowledge gives greater power and potential.

There is a story about some American soldiers in Germany WW II, and they were in a dugout and they heard fighting outside but they had their orders to stand guard in their dugout and they did not participate in any action, so they complained about being so bored as they played cards and smoked cigarettes, and later they found out that the famous and huge "battle of the bulge" had gone on all around their dugout and they did not know it, so they missed out on the great event simply because they did not know of the reality going on around them.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 56: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:42 pm
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Monta wrote:

KenRU wrote:

Monta wrote:

[Replying to post 42 by Wissing]

" In communist Russia, the influence of Christianity was intentionally extinguished, meaning we have a clear example of what society looks like in Jesus' absence. (Not to say he was absent in Spirit, but he was absent in official and measurable ways). Nicolas Zernov shows this in a table showing the number of churches, monasteries, priests, deacons, etc, before and during communism, which I've reproduced partially below [2],
Quote:

............. year 1917 ............. year 1941
Churches....... 1710 ....................... 2
Monasteries..... 23 ......................... 0
Priests........... 1435 ....................... 3
Deacons........... 277 ...................... 1 "

With insane hatred against religion, Bolsevics did not bring in new order of peace and justice for all, they had to destroy and destroy.
Surely the world atheists would recognize the insanity of this behavior and condemn it, or given a chance would they behave the same way?


By that logic, are you consistent enough to lay the blame then on religion for the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials and the Dark Ages?


Can we first make a response to this question before going to the next?


Sure, I thought the point obvious but ok, I'll connect the dots. The "insane hatred against religion" the Bolsheviks had has no link to atheism (or a moral code inspired or attributed to) atheism. To assert there is a relationship, one must also assume there is a relationship between Christianity and the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials and the Dark Ages. Sure, it is easy to condemn violence, but that doesn't mean I acknowledge it has anything whatsoever to do with a moral code of atheism or a purpose to life derived from atheism.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 57: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:20 am
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[Replying to post 56 by KenRU]


"Sure, I thought the point obvious but ok, I'll connect the dots. The "insane hatred against religion" the Bolsheviks had has no link to atheism (or a moral code inspired or attributed to) atheism. To assert there is a relationship, one must also assume there is a relationship between Christianity and the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials and the Dark Ages. Sure, it is easy to condemn violence, but that doesn't mean I acknowledge it has anything whatsoever to do with a moral code of atheism or a purpose to life derived from atheism."

What is a moral code of atheism?

Dictionary definition of an atheist is a person who lacks a belief in a god or gods.
Yet majority of Bolsevics, those who did the most of running the show were Jews who be definition had a religion, Judaism. Here we get into religious argument who is a genuine believer; same goes for Christians. Spanish Inquisitors responsible for countless murders by rule were believers in a god or gods (this is called religiosity not a belief in God). Had they had a genuine faith in a living God they would not have done what they did.
Russian Bolsevics went on the march of destruction on anything Christian.
In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.
Shall have to leave it here give it further thought.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 58: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:30 am
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[Replying to post 57 by Monta]

Further to my above post.
Initially I Said that Russian Bolsevics were atheists and as such were responsible for mass murder of Russian Christians (mainly) and questioned whether western atheists given the same opportunity would tread the same path.

Next point was that Jews were not atheists but Judaics.

Reflecting further history tells us that they were members of communist party which is well known is to be atheistic. Therefore they behaved as they did because they were atheists and the question is whether western atheists would do the same given the opportunity.

It is not a matter of believing this or that, it's the hatred that's generated.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 59: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:02 am
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Monta wrote:

Bolsevics were atheists

Russian Christians (mainly)

Therefore they behaved as they did because they were atheists and the question is whether western atheists would do the same given the opportunity.

It is not a matter of believing this or that, it's the hatred that's generated.

I am certain that Atheism does not want to be aligned with the Bolsheviks any more than Christianity wants to be aligned with the Crusades.

Humans do our hatred and violence under every name and distinction because humans are hateful and violent creatures.

It is the reality of people to hate others, and it is the characteristic of people to commit crimes and atrocities throughout history, and so it is just as unfair and untrue to blame the Atheism as it is to blame the Christianity for what the ignorant people do.

There would be more killing and atrocities today in the USA if it were not for our controlling laws and our ever ready police force that keeps the people in order.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 60: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:44 am
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[Replying to post 57 by Monta]

Quote:
Spanish Inquisitors responsible for countless murders by rule were believers in a god or gods (this is called religiosity not a belief in God). Had they had a genuine faith in a living God they would not have done what they did.


What does this mean? Someone (or some group of people) can say and honestly believe that their god is alive and still go on to commit wide scale violence.
What counts as 'genuine faith', in your books Monta? What counts as a 'living God' in your books Monta?

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