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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:54 am  What is God? Reply with quote

What is God?
Is God not beyond definition?
Why do we argue about the existence of that which is beyond definition?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 121: Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:19 pm
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[quote="paarsurrey1"]
William wrote:

[Replying to post 110 by paarsurrey1]

Quote:
I understand that the positive verities found in the Universe are attributes of One-True-God.


This is where we differ slightly in understanding. All consciousness, even the negative types, are part of the overall aspects of First Source Consciousness.
Separating GOD from negative aspects of consciousness is unfruitful and most often leads to disunity.

In relation to consciousness within this universe, yes - the positive manifestations of goodness are reflective of the attributes of FSC (One-True-God) and the negative manifestations can be linked to individuate consciousnesses in form which misunderstand this concept by manifesting negative action in the name of any ideas of GOD, or for that matter even in the name of ideas which are founded on the principles of materialism where no GODs are recognized as applicable.

The Dangers of Separating Human Consciousness From Any Idea of GOD

Separating any idea of GOD from All other Consciousness.


Quote:
I don't agree with one.


Which one don't you agree with and why don't you agree with it? Simply stating you don't agree isn't helpful, please.

Quote:
Please clarify, is one's response based on Science or on Revelation from God?


Both.

Quote:
If not, then it is just a conjecture, please.
Regards



Oh there is still conjecture, regardless. That is the nature of this particular experience of being human. We are not born with full knowledge or even any knowledge of a prior existence, so it is par for the course that conjecture also plays a part in nutting things out.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 122: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:41 am
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[Replying to post 121 by William]

Quote:
Paarsurrey wrote:
Quote:
I don't agree with one.
Please clarify, is one's response based on Science or on Revelation from God?
Which one don't you agree with and why don't you agree with it?

Quote:
William wrote:
Simply stating you don't agree isn't helpful, please.

William wrote:
Both.


For religion, please quote from the truthful revealed religion one believes in, with the reasons given by that religion in the word-revealed supporting it .

For science, please quote from a text-book of science or from a peer-reviewed article published in a science journal of repute.Also, please mention the discipline of science that deals God.

Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 123: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:26 am
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paarsurrey1 wrote:

[Replying to post 121 by William]

Quote:
Paarsurrey wrote:
Quote:
I don't agree with one.
Please clarify, is one's response based on Science or on Revelation from God?
Which one don't you agree with and why don't you agree with it?

Quote:
William wrote:
Simply stating you don't agree isn't helpful, please.

William wrote:
Both.


For religion, please quote from the truthful revealed religion one believes in, with the reasons given by that religion in the word-revealed supporting it .

For science, please quote from a text-book of science or from a peer-reviewed article published in a science journal of repute.Also, please mention the discipline of science that deals God.

Regards



What is your question or concern in relation to whatever it is I said in which you do not agree?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 124: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:08 am
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paarsurrey1 wrote:



For religion, please quote from the truthful revealed religion one believes in, with the reasons given by that religion in the word-revealed supporting it .


Who is it that decides a religion is "truthful" and "revealed"? Is there a scientific way of deciding or do you throw a coin?

It is not a question of Science versus Religion. Scientists use methods which anyone can check and verify; religion uses.... em.... well .... stories?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 125: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:26 am
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[Replying to post 124 by marco]

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Who is it that decides a religion is "truthful" and "revealed"?


The individual decides. On can examine what someone says about their religion and why they think it is truthful and just how much of it they care to reveal and from that, one can decide whether the religions beliefs are truth, fiction. a mix of both, or something to remain undecided about etc.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 126: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:06 pm
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William wrote:


The individual decides. On can examine what someone says about their religion and why they think it is truthful and just how much of it they care to reveal and from that, one can decide whether the religions beliefs are truth, fiction. a mix of both, or something to remain undecided about etc.


God is then a function of the intelligence of the individual, his sophistication generated by the imagination and talent of a thinker.

When one comes across a story, say Muhammad in the cave with Gabriel (an angel, curiously named!) I wonder what faculty one exercises in giving credence to the tale. If I am told a man raised the putrefying corpse of a roadside dog to life I don't believe it. Why would I believe an incident of similar credibility from fourteen centuries back or longer?

I accept your adopted notion of God, of cosmic consciousness, is a sensible one. For me, however, it is simply an advance on the yearnings of our ancestors to make sense of the (as yet) incomprehensible. We do ourselves no favours with Yahwehs and Allahs. And we fight with each other over who has the stronger dad. Sad.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 127: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:51 pm
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[Replying to marco]

I contend God suffers with us. The Hebrew prophets all said God is a historic God, concerned with humanity, involved in human affairs , a God of history , the Hebrew God cares about people, which include joys and sorrows. In effect our folly causes God pain. God intervenes for God's own peace of mind. God and Man are in an intimate relationship. We are in a dynamic relationship where "the less there is of Man the more there is of God; the less there is of mind the more there is of the divine"
A . Heschel
This is why I say one has to know himself before he can know God. God and Man are intimately related. The mystery of Christianity , that Jesus is God and Man is clearly revealed in this mutuality.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 128: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:03 pm
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[quote="marco"]
William wrote:


The individual decides. On can examine what someone says about their religion and why they think it is truthful and just how much of it they care to reveal and from that, one can decide whether the religions beliefs are truth, fiction. a mix of both, or something to remain undecided about etc.


Quote:
God is then a function of the intelligence of the individual, his sophistication generated by the imagination and talent of a thinker.


That is an aspect of what GOD is, yes.
However, you were asking and I was replying about religion, and as we know, religions do not agree with other religions regarding 'what is GOD'.

Quote:
When one comes across a story, say Muhammad in the cave with Gabriel (an angel, curiously named!) I wonder what faculty one exercises in giving credence to the tale.


Faith.

Quote:
If I am told a man raised the putrefying corpse of a roadside dog to life I don't believe it. Why would I believe an incident of similar credibility from fourteen centuries back or longer?


I can give you no reason as to why you would believe or not believe anything about anything. Our (the royal we) experience as a self conscious individual human being is a subjective one. Even then we can easily overlook pertinent aspects of that experience simply by not being observant enough, or even not being introspective enough.

Quote:
I accept your adopted notion of God, of cosmic consciousness, is a sensible one.


I go along with that. Smile It seems reasonable.

Quote:
For me, however, it is simply an advance on the yearnings of our ancestors to make sense of the (as yet) incomprehensible.


I think it is more the case of what consciousness just has to do under such circumstances. An attribute of consciousness.

The way some individuals interpret scientific data - especially related to consciousness, gives them an opportunity to suppress that attribute of consciousness, but it [interpretation of scientific data] is still a product of belief.
Individual experience does dictate how the individual interprets, not only themselves, (subjective) but also others and the external world (objective).

Add to that the capacity to judge, and sometimes the knives come out.

Quote:
We do ourselves no favours with Yahwehs and Allahs. And we fight with each other over who has the stronger dad. Sad.


Yes it is sad. I am not altogether dismissive against any particular ideas of GOD but draw the line at thoughts which perpetuate beliefs which allow for those that do think it acceptable, to fight and kill in the name of one GOD or another.

But then, I am also not inclined to act in that manner in relation to political/patriotic agenda either, so can likely be counted among the minority in that regard. Not that I am a coward imo but that I need to be brave to take a stand for peaceful resolution in the face of the threat of bullets and bombs and being labelled as a traitor/Judas etc.
This world is my country and I have no interests in thinking otherwise.

More and more people do appear to be tired of all that same old same old though and seem to want to get on with living in peace. Radical changes in our present inherited social systems which are all pretty much based upon maintaining some kinds of disparity, are in my opinion, the thing that will kill the majority of human beings on the planet eventually, because these naturally do not promote peace and until people actually realize this, wanting peace will simply remain wishful thinking.

So it isn't just about some 'yearning to make sense of the (as yet) incomprehensible' which has me so interested in GOD and in relation to the possibility of life after death...that there is more to the picture than meets the eye...

...it is seeing within my particular idea of what GOD is, a kind of sensibility which provides a sturdy pace to position my thoughts while the world around me increasingly looses its nuts. Well I think it has always lost its nuts, and doesn't actually realize that this is the case and therefore isn't seriously looking for what is lost. But one can't really lose something one has never had, so it is a bad analogy.

We have to find wisdom.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 129: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:57 am
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marco wrote:

William wrote:


The individual decides. On can examine what someone says about their religion and why they think it is truthful and just how much of it they care to reveal and from that, one can decide whether the religions beliefs are truth, fiction. a mix of both, or something to remain undecided about etc.


God is then a function of the intelligence of the individual, his sophistication generated by the imagination and talent of a thinker.

When one comes across a story, say Muhammad in the cave with Gabriel (an angel, curiously named!) I wonder what faculty one exercises in giving credence to the tale. If I am told a man raised the putrefying corpse of a roadside dog to life I don't believe it. Why would I believe an incident of similar credibility from fourteen centuries back or longer?

I accept your adopted notion of God, of cosmic consciousness, is a sensible one. For me, however, it is simply an advance on the yearnings of our ancestors to make sense of the (as yet) incomprehensible. We do ourselves no favours with Yahwehs and Allahs. And we fight with each other over who has the stronger dad. Sad.

Quote:
Muhammad in the cave with Gabriel

Please quote from Quran where it is mentioned. It is not mentioned in Quran I am sure.
To me it is not a scientific approach to make any criticism on Islam/Quran/Muhammad without quoting a reference on the issue from Quran- the foremost and primary source about Islam/Quran/Muhammad, whatever the sub-set of their believers, please.
Quran is not a voluminous Word of Revelation. It is almost the size of four-gospels put together. That will add more meaning to one's critiques. Just a suggestion, please.
Right, please?
Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 130: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:23 am
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paarsurrey1 wrote:


Please quote from Quran where it is mentioned. It is not mentioned in Quran I am sure.


I don't believe that Muhammad spoke to an angel either, so I agree with your doubt. Islam accepts events from the attested life of Muhammad and the biographers mention the cave incident. For me it makes no difference if he heard God in a cave, on a boat or in a house. One would suppose that he was able to communicate an important experience and have it recorded. Many Muslims accept that he did just that. The Koran is a result of his meeting, wherever it took place. Of the two statements:
Muhammad was in a cave and heard voices and
Muhammad dictated God's actual words


The one I would challenge is the second. The first is of no importance. We can all hear voices. What makes you believe that Muhammad DID dictate God's words?

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