Why believe in NT Gospels as "Word of God"?

[paarsurrey1]

Not to speak of God the NT Gospels do not have anything from Jesus directly. All of its contents are third person narratives. Right, please?
Regards

_________
Post 35 and Post 36, thread "Do we have first person narrative/s from Jesus? "

[Hawkins]

Not to speak of God the NT Gospels do not have anything from Jesus directly. All of its contents are third person narratives. Right, please?
Regards

_________
Post 35 and Post 36, thread "Do we have first person narrative/s from Jesus? "

That's how human history is written. The difference is that humans history is the recording of human deeds, while the Bible is the recording of God's deeds.

Under the assumption that if God doesn't exist then there's not much to discuss about as everything is a lie. However, if God does exist, He can dictate what to be witnessed and what to be written using human witnesses as the authors.

[onewithhim]

Not to speak of God the NT Gospels do not have anything from Jesus directly. All of its contents are third person narratives. Right, please?
Regards

_________
Post 35 and Post 36, thread "Do we have first person narrative/s from Jesus? "

Nowhere is there first-person narrative from Jesus. But lots of second-person narrative. The Gospel writer John was an eye-witness to the things he wrote about, and quoted many things that Jesus said. Why on Earth would he have wanted to fool people? There was nothing for him to gain. All he was interested in was people gaining life because of Jesus. He wrote:

"Jesus said to [Thomas], 'Because you have seen me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.' Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:29-31, NASB)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

If the gospels have nothing from God why does the Quran say

SURAH 3:2
"He has revealed to you the BOOK with the truth [...] He has already revealed the TORAH and the GOSPELS for the guidance of men"

Obviously if God has revealaed the gopels for the guidance of men they must be truth whether Jesus wrote them himself or not. Unless the Quran is ... wrong!

Jesus wrote them himself or not.

Is it an acknowledgement/admission that Jesus has no role in making the collection known as "Gospels"? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Does one mean that whatever the people make or add or delete from the Word Revealed on Jesus and ascribe to Jesus is truthful?
Jesus neither wrote anything of whatever was revealed on him by One-True-God (Allah) nor did he dictate anything to the scribes nor he authorized anybody to write on his behalf.It is a collection of unauthorized writings ascribed to Jesus. Jesus did not name this unauthorized collection as "Gospels". Did he, please?
Regards

If you care about Allah's words, why do you dismiss Surah 3:2?

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

If the gospels have nothing from God why does the Quran say

SURAH 3:2
"He has revealed to you the BOOK with the truth [...] He has already revealed the TORAH and the GOSPELS for the guidance of men"

Obviously if God has revealaed the gopels for the guidance of men they must be truth whether Jesus wrote them himself or not. Unless the Quran is ... wrong!

Jesus wrote them himself or not.

Is it an acknowledgement/admission that Jesus has no role in making the collection known as "Gospels"? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Does one mean that whatever the people make or add or delete from the Word Revealed on Jesus and ascribe to Jesus is truthful?
Jesus neither wrote anything of whatever was revealed on him by One-True-God (Allah) nor did he dictate anything to the scribes nor he authorized anybody to write on his behalf.It is a collection of unauthorized writings ascribed to Jesus. Jesus did not name this unauthorized collection as "Gospels". Did he, please?
Regards

If you care about Allah's words, why do you dismiss Surah 3:2?

I don't dismiss Quran 3:2 but, isn't that a subject of another thread when we discuss "Why to believe in Quran the most secure and protected "Word of God"?", if we may.
One may like to read my thoughts, meanwhile, in the thread "What is the correct way to interpret the Bible?" >Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma, please.
Regards

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

If the gospels have nothing from God why does the Quran say

SURAH 3:2
"He has revealed to you the BOOK with the truth [...] He has already revealed the TORAH and the GOSPELS for the guidance of men"

Obviously if God has revealaed the gopels for the guidance of men they must be truth whether Jesus wrote them himself or not. Unless the Quran is ... wrong!

Jesus wrote them himself or not.

Is it an acknowledgement/admission that Jesus has no role in making the collection known as "Gospels"? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Does one mean that whatever the people make or add or delete from the Word Revealed on Jesus and ascribe to Jesus is truthful?
Jesus neither wrote anything of whatever was revealed on him by One-True-God (Allah) nor did he dictate anything to the scribes nor he authorized anybody to write on his behalf.It is a collection of unauthorized writings ascribed to Jesus. Jesus did not name this unauthorized collection as "Gospels". Did he, please?
Regards

If you care about Allah's words, why do you dismiss Surah 3:2?

I don't dismiss Quran 3:2 but, isn't that a subject of another thread when we discuss "Why to believe in Quran the most secure and protected "Word of God"?", if we may.
One may like to read my thoughts, meanwhile, in the thread "What is the correct way to interpret the Bible?" >Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma, please.
Regards

My question is absolutely appropriate for this thread. You asked "Why believe in NT Gospels as 'Word of God'"? Surah 3:2 states that the Gospels were inspired by Allah, therefore that should be ample reason for you to accept them as the Word of God.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

If the gospels have nothing from God why does the Quran say

SURAH 3:2
"He has revealed to you the BOOK with the truth [...] He has already revealed the TORAH and the GOSPELS for the guidance of men"

Obviously if God has revealaed the gopels for the guidance of men they must be truth whether Jesus wrote them himself or not. Unless the Quran is ... wrong!

Jesus wrote them himself or not.

Is it an acknowledgement/admission that Jesus has no role in making the collection known as "Gospels"? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Does one mean that whatever the people make or add or delete from the Word Revealed on Jesus and ascribe to Jesus is truthful?
Jesus neither wrote anything of whatever was revealed on him by One-True-God (Allah) nor did he dictate anything to the scribes nor he authorized anybody to write on his behalf.It is a collection of unauthorized writings ascribed to Jesus. Jesus did not name this unauthorized collection as "Gospels". Did he, please?
Regards

If you care about Allah's words, why do you dismiss Surah 3:2?

I don't dismiss Quran 3:2 but, isn't that a subject of another thread when we discuss "Why to believe in Quran the most secure and protected "Word of God"?", if we may.
One may like to read my thoughts, meanwhile, in the thread "What is the correct way to interpret the Bible?" >Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma, please.
Regards

This is what we call a 'deflection' in debating. Its when faced with an indisputable fact one will simply bring up another subject without addressing the fact. It's being caught in a paradox of your own making. There are two options. Admit fault in being wrong or deflect. It's basically viewed as an admission of defeat in a debate without the person accepting defeat.

You said that you don't dismiss the Quran that says that you say that you trust, but you in fact don't seem to trust it just as you don't trust the NT. That begs the question: if you don't trust the Quran or the New Testament (AKA the Greek Scriptures), what do you trust as a source of truth?

It would appear that people of every religion that don't trust their own Holy Book. Why am I not surprised. Many Christians and Jews do the exact same thing.

[paarsurrey1]

[Replying to post 1 by paarsurrey1]

If the gospels have nothing from God why does the Quran say

SURAH 3:2
"He has revealed to you the BOOK with the truth [...] He has already revealed the TORAH and the GOSPELS for the guidance of men"

Obviously if God has revealed the gospels for the guidance of men they must be truth whether Jesus wrote them himself or not. Unless the Quran is ... wrong!

I give first few verses of chapter 3 of Quran for the context of the verse quoted above:

[3:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[3:2] Alif Lam Mim.
[3:3] Allah is He beside Whom there is no God, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining.
[3:4] He has sent down to thee the Book containing the truth and fulfilling that which precedes it; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel
[3:5] Before this, as a guidance to the people; and He has sent down the Discrimination. Surely, those who deny the Signs of Allah shall have a severe punishment. And Allah is Mighty, Possessor of the power to requite
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... r.php?ch=3

In verses [3:43] the book is Quran- the Revelation that has been sent down on Muhammad by One-True-God. Torah is the Revelation sent down on Moses and Gospels or Injeel, the Revelation sent down on Jesus. The “Discrimination� sent down are the Teachings in verses in Quran that tell exactly what was actually revealed on Moses and Jesus originally not what the Jews and Christians describe now as Torah or Gospels (OT and NT).

The salient features of the teachings send down on Moses and Jesus has been given in Quran in many a chapter/verses and what their followers had done to the scriptures and the teachings sent down on Moses and Jesus.

The internal evidence of the Torah and Gospels speaks loudly that the pristine revelation sent down on Moses and Jesus have not reached us exactly as was sent down.

Right, please?
Regards

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 17 by paarsurrey1]

He sent down the Torah and the Gospel [3:5] Before this,

#1 The surah above proves the Torah and the Gospels were revealed long before the quran existed. So they were not revealed in the Quran but in Jewish and Christian holy scripture.

SURAH 6:115
" [...] None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

SURAH 18:27
And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the BOOK of thy Lord: none can change His Words [...].

If the Torah and the gospels were indeed from Allah as the Quran says, then they CANNOT BE CHANGED. So they must have remained uncorrupted. If you claim "pristine revelation sent down on Moses and Jesus have not reached us exactly as was sent down" you are calling Allah a liar.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 3 by paarsurrey1]

Quote:
essentially all history is written from the third person perspective.

I don't agree with one on the above:

"History (from Greek ἱστο�ία, historia, meaning "inquiry, knowledge acquired by investigation")[2] is the study of the past as it is described in written documents.[3][4] Events occurring before written record are considered prehistory. It is an umbrella term that relates to past events as well as the memory, discovery, collection, organization, presentation, and interpretation of information about these events. Scholars who write about history are called historians.
History can also refer to the academic discipline which uses a narrative to examine and analyse a sequence of past events, and objectively determine the patterns of cause and effect that determine them.[5][6] Historians sometimes debate the nature of history and its usefulness by discussing the study of the discipline as an end in itself and as a way of providing "perspective" on the problems of the present.[5][7][8][9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History

And Jesus time was not in the pre-historic period by far. Right, please?
Regards

You have missed BJS' point completely. It can be restated:

Collect every book that is written about the past, and 99/100 it will talk about someone else, using pronouns like he/she/it. 1/100 times it will use the pronoun "I". Hence nearly all history is written in the third person (written about someone else, rather than about the person writing it).

[marco]

The salient features of the teachings send down on Moses and Jesus has been given in Quran in many a chapter/verses and what their followers had done to the scriptures and the teachings sent down on Moses and Jesus.

This is a way to claim precedence for Muhammad's thoughts which are expressed in his Koran. If we don't accept these thoughts as divine - and when we read the Koran there is nothing much to suggest the book is anything other than an attack on unbelievers - then quoting bits from the Koran about Jesus is pointless. Muhammad didn't know Jesus - he got his information from Christians and Jews, and he recalled it imperfectly. This is a reasonable standpoint. The gospels may not be the word of God, but the Koran doesn't disprove them.

Thus the reason for differences in the gospels and the Koran is that the Koran is just a mixture of things Muhammad tried to remember. He was illiterate and his memory need not have been perfect.