Moses could not enter the promised land

[Wootah]

It seems a perfect metaphor I think. Moses was the Messiah figure who ushered in the covenant of the law and the promised land is a metaphor for heaven. But this Messiah was inadequate and could not lead into the promised land because the law is inadequate.

My mind was 'blown' when that was pointed out to me.

Does Moses being prevented from entering the promised land indicate that we cannot be saved by the law?

[Wootah]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

This might not be a thread of interest to you. It is assuming the bible is true and talking about a particular story in the bible and what that might mean.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 6 by Wootah]

Moses was never the Messiah figure, and Jesus was never equated as a Moses figure in the Bible.

I beg to differ.

Moses was God's anointed[christ] who freed the Israelites from their slave-masters, received and gave them the Law, and led them for 40 years.

Moses himself talks of a Moses figure to come.

Deuteronomy 18:15

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.

Plenty more similar in te N.T.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius.advice]

That has no relevance to the topic but I assure you I talk in faith and not dogmatically. I'll watch the video when I have time.

RESPONSE: Interesting. I prefer to talk with evidence and proof rather than faith.

Definition of "faith:" strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

This fellow realizes what taking in faith can lead to.

http://trentbell2nd.flywheelsites.com/?p=330

"The religious culture I was raised in approached the existence of God as a objective “True Fact� and faith in that God as a matter of certainty. The problem with this is that as I have matured and have been honest with myself, I have realized that God does not exist as a “fact� in our reality and that we cannot claim certainty in our approach to it. God is just not a person, place or thing that we have the ability to prove. Yet we approach it in that manner with those exact expectations."


"My system of coping with the unknowable foundational questions of existence was delusional and unrealistic. It has deposited me as 40 year old man with a philosophical thought process and spiritual expectations that are completely delusional and unrealistic at their core. I have essentially been trained to comfort myself and ease my mind by lying to myself. The tools my religious culture gave me are only useful and dependable when a deep lie is present in my thought process and reasoning."



"The true value of a man is not determined by his possession, supposed or real, of Truth, but rather by his sincere exertion to get to the Truth. It is not possession of the Truth, but rather the pursuit of Truth by which he extends his powers and in which his ever-growing perfectibility is to be found."
Gotthold Ephraim Lessing

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 13 by polonius.advice]

Moderator Comment

Please note that in this subforum the canon of the Bible is considered authoritative with respect to the historical consensus of the canon's content. Whether it can be supported by evidence and proof or not, should not be debated here.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[JP Cusick]

You do realise that when Jesus delivers the sermon on the mount that is figuratively and literally replacing Moses and the commandments?

That does not change the distinction that Paul was the one like Moses - Jesus was not like Moses.

See reply comment below:



--------------------------------------------------------

Moses was God's anointed[christ] who freed the Israelites from their slave-masters, received and gave them the Law, and led them for 40 years.

God gave the ten commandments to Moses - then Moses gave a compromised and watered down message to the children of Israel, see Matthew 19:7-8

Jesus preached a very strong message for people to be perfect and take up their cross - then comes Paul who preaches that all men fall short and saved by grace.

This does not make Moses or Paul as to be rejected or overlooked - certainly not - but they are to be stepping stones up to the next higher level.

If a person were to become perfect at Moses then they would still fall short of God.

If a person becomes perfect at Paul then they would still fall short of Christ.

The one prophesied to be like Moses was Paul - Jesus was likened to the Father.

[Wootah]

[Replying to JP Cusick]

How is Jesus like the Father when he cries out 'Abba father' and everything he is doing is being a loyal son to the Father?

[JP Cusick]

How is Jesus like the Father when he cries out 'Abba father' and everything he is doing is being a loyal son to the Father?

That is because it is just a metaphor.

Paul was not a reincarnated Moses - Paul was just the later person like Moses.

Jesus was not the Father - Jesus is likened to the Father.

The use of metaphors is an important aspect of the entire Bible from beginning through the end.

There is a theory in linguistic studies that the earliest human speech was surely loaded down with very simplistic metaphors, as like a caveman yells "Mastodon" and it was not to name the animal as it was their call to the other cavemen to get up and to join the hunt, and even today in modern language people use metaphors all of the time without realizing that we are using a metaphor, as like some one saying just the one name of "Hitler" concerning President Trump because our brains just into all sorts of translations for that one word metaphor without anything else being said.

[Wootah]

[Replying to JP Cusick]

Yes I think I know what a metaphor is. How is Jesus a metaphor for the the father? Literally no one looks at Jesus and says oh he is a metaphor for the father. You will have to put some effort into your case.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 15 by JP Cusick]

The one prophesied to be like Moses was Paul

That's not what the early Church proclaimed.

Acts 3:

17 “Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer.

19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.
23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people'."

It is what God was referring to at the Transfiguration.

Luke 9:

34 While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.

35 A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him."

[JP Cusick]

[Replying to post 15 by JP Cusick]

The one prophesied to be like Moses was Paul

That's not what the early Church proclaimed.

Acts 3:

17 “Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer.

19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.
23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people'."

It is what God was referring to at the Transfiguration.

Luke 9:

34 While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.

35 A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him."

You make an excellent argument - so you must know that it comes close but never really says it, and close does not count.

I would say that they probably did not know then - what we can know now.

God gave the 10 commandments and then Moses gave the Mosaic laws.
Jesus gave a high calling to be perfect then came Paul who preached that we all fall short.

The times had changed between the 10 commandments as the people built their golden calf and so Moses gave them a different list of commands.

So too the times changed after Jesus and the crucifixion - and then came Paul as an Apostle born out of due time, see 1 Corinthians 15:8-11.

Moses first persecuted the children of Israel, and Paul first persecuted the Christians.