It has been said by Christian apologists, (especially Evangelical and Fundamentalist) that the "whole Bible is about Jesus".
For debate:
1) Is this so, and if so, where is Jesus in the Old Testament? Which passages exactly?
2) And if specific passages are cited, how are these passages specifically referring to Jesus, or even the Messiah? And how is this the only reasonable interpretation of those verses?
3) If the "Old" Testament (Hebrew Bible) is really all about Jesus, why do you suppose that the vast majority of Jews don't see him there?
Please address any combination of the above.
"The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
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"The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #2Elijah John wrote: 3) If the "Old" Testament (Hebrew Bible) is really all about Jesus, why do you suppose that the vast majority of Jews don't see him there?
Please address any combination of the above.
The Jews today fail to see Jesus as the fulfillment of their own scripture for a similar reason the majority of the Jews failed to put faith in him when he was on earth, namely they misinterprete scripture.
The first century Jews misinterpreted scripture because their motives were selfish, they were looking for a warrior Messiah that would instigate revolt and free them from the despised Roman yoke; they had no interest in this lowly carpenter from the backwoods, preaching some heavenly kingdom and urging submission.
The masses then, like the religious masses today, are hoodwinked and manipulated by their religious leaders whose sole interest was in furthering their own political and economic interests. The lies and misinformation deliberately propogated in the first century around the person of Jesus continue amongst the Jewish community today, creating a bias that blinds many to the obvious.
JW
Did Jesus fulfill the Messianic Prophecies?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p847881
Video Presentation: Gerrit Loisch: Fortified by "the Prophetic Word" [5"30]
tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODStudio/pub-jwban_201503_1_VIDEO
Further reading
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... fulfilled/
What are the odds?
http://www.bereanpublishers.com/the-odd ... ming-true/
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #3[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
Septuagint version of Zechariah 3 and 6 gives the exact Greek name of Jesus, describing him as confronting Satan, being crowned king in heaven, called "the man named 'Rising'" who is said to rise from his place below, building up God’s house, given supreme authority over God’s domain and ending all sins in a single day.
Daniel 9 describes a messiah dying before the end of the world.
Isaiah 52-53 describes the cleansing of the world's sins by the death of a servant.
Septuagint version of Zechariah 3 and 6 gives the exact Greek name of Jesus, describing him as confronting Satan, being crowned king in heaven, called "the man named 'Rising'" who is said to rise from his place below, building up God’s house, given supreme authority over God’s domain and ending all sins in a single day.
Daniel 9 describes a messiah dying before the end of the world.
Isaiah 52-53 describes the cleansing of the world's sins by the death of a servant.
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Post #4
I think such a claim only makes sense if you loosen up on Jesus as a specific individual, and see him instead as the realization of what human beings were called to be from the very beginning: the image of God.1) Is this so, and if so, where is Jesus in the Old Testament? Which passages exactly?
In that sense, Jesus as a concept is operative throughout the bible as our calling, failure, and, in our finest moments, presence.
And you could say, arguably, that "the whole bible is about Jesus," since the whole bible is about humankind fulfilling this role on earth.
Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #5It is more accurate to say that Jesus was involved in the entire Bible because it was more about certain people, as like being about the children of Israel, being about David and Solomon, about Adam and Eve, about each of the Prophets, but Jesus was always included.Elijah John wrote: It has been said by Christian apologists, (especially Evangelical and Fundamentalist) that the "whole Bible is about Jesus".
Please address any combination of the above.
Some examples here:
The "voice" of God walking through the "Garden of Eden" then that was Jesus as the "voice" walking through, see Genesis 3:8-10
The New Testament tells that Jesus was the "word of God" and that word means the spokesperson for God, and thereby the word and the "voice" of God are synonymous.
Another example from Ezekiel 36:4 = "... hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to ..."
The one speaking for God is the spokesperson who was Jesus the Christ.
The ten commandments in Exodus 20:1 "And God spake all these words, saying, ..."
That speaker or spokesperson is the word of God otherwise known as Jesus, see John 1:1-5
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Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #6I'll have to take your word for that, as I know very very little about Greek or the Septuagint. Perhaps someone more knowledgable will weigh in.alwayson wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
Septuagint version of Zechariah 3 and 6 gives the exact Greek name of Jesus, describing him as confronting Satan, being crowned king in heaven, called "the man named 'Rising'" who is said to rise from his place below, building up God’s house, given supreme authority over God’s domain and ending all sins in a single day.
Daniel 9 describes a messiah dying before the end of the world.
Isaiah 52-53 describes the cleansing of the world's sins by the death of a servant.
Assuming that Jesus is indeed named by name in the Septuagint, considering that Jesus- Messiah is not named in the OT/Hebrew Bible, wouldn't it then be reasonable to conclude that the Greek translators and editors of the Bible added his name to the OT because it suited their Christian agenda?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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- Savant
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- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
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Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #7That's reading Jesus into it, don't you think? Projecting John's interpretation backwards, into the "Old" Testament.JP Cusick wrote:It is more accurate to say that Jesus was involved in the entire Bible because it was more about certain people, as like being about the children of Israel, being about David and Solomon, about Adam and Eve, about each of the Prophets, but Jesus was always included.Elijah John wrote: It has been said by Christian apologists, (especially Evangelical and Fundamentalist) that the "whole Bible is about Jesus".
Please address any combination of the above.
Some examples here:
The "voice" of God walking through the "Garden of Eden" then that was Jesus as the "voice" walking through, see Genesis 3:8-10
The New Testament tells that Jesus was the "word of God" and that word means the spokesperson for God, and thereby the word and the "voice" of God are synonymous.
Another example from Ezekiel 36:4 = "... hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to ..."
The one speaking for God is the spokesperson who was Jesus the Christ.
The ten commandments in Exodus 20:1 "And God spake all these words, saying, ..."
That speaker or spokesperson is the word of God otherwise known as Jesus, see John 1:1-5
Revisionism.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #8[Replying to post 6 by Elijah John]
When you translate Zechariah's Yeshua from Hebrew into Greek, you get IÄ“sous.
The same Greek name of Jesus in the New Testament.
When you translate Zechariah's Yeshua from Hebrew into Greek, you get IÄ“sous.
The same Greek name of Jesus in the New Testament.
Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #9The Hebrew name of Yeshua is hidden but exposed in the linguistics of the Tao Te Ching chapter #14 where it is equivalent to the words in the Bible, see here:alwayson wrote: When you translate Zechariah's Yeshua from Hebrew into Greek, you get IÄ“sous.
The same Greek name of Jesus in the New Testament.
We look for it but do not see it; [ Eyes but can not see. ]
we name it "subtle."
We listen for it but do not hear it; [ Ears but can not hear. ]
we name it "rare."
We grope for it but do not grasp it; [ Heart which can not understand. ]
we name it "serene."
---
In the old Chinese language then these three words "subtle, rare, serene" combined (united) have the sound of "yuh-hsyuh-wuh" which is like Yeshua (Joshua) which is the Hebrew name for Jesus, per reference page 115, of the Tao Te Ching, 1990, by Victor H. Mair.
It also says that because of that "Tao Te Ching" book coming from the 6th century BCE then the Scholar thought that the words might have been saying "Yahweh" but it was closer to Yeshua and so they could not see it as talking about Jesus, but we can see that as a type of prophesy of the Christ from old China.
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Re: "The whole Bible is about Jesus"...
Post #10When you translate Yeshua in Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua (151 times), Judges, 1 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, Nehemiah, Haggai and Zechariah from Hebrew into Greek, you get Iēsous.( Ἰησοῦς )alwayson wrote: [Replying to post 6 by Elijah John]
When you translate Zechariah's Yeshua from Hebrew into Greek, you get IÄ“sous.
The same Greek name of Jesus in the New Testament.
The same Greek name of Joshua in Luke, Acts and Hebrews.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John