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dragonthief
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:43 pm  Worship of Mary not Biblical Reply with quote

In the Bible, God makes it clear that we are to worship no other God. Christ said that the only way to salvation was through him. The Bible also makes it clear that the only way to communicate to God is by prayer through Jesus Christ. So, if this is the case, why do Catholics pray to Mary. She did not die for our sins. She did not suffer crucifixion and she certainly did not raise from the dead, nor has she ascended into Heaven. She is, like the rest of the believers, asleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection. She is not seated in Heaven (only Christ and the Angels are in Heaven).

I walked into a Catholic Church recently to be confronted with a huge portrait of the glorified Mary above the pulpit and a small crucifix of Christ off to one side. The combined image places Christ still on the Cross, whilst Mary is a glorified being complete with a halo. This image does not fit with the Bible and it is a complete and utter false representation of who and why we worship.

I grew up a Catholic and we were taught from an early age to pray to Mary. We were hardly ever taught to pray to God or Jesus. I am no longer a Catholic. My religious beliefs are personal and I follow, as much as I am able to, the dictates of the Bible, as handed down by the apostles and Christ and not some established false religion.

Here's my challenge to Catholics, prove, from the Bible, that God commanded us to pray to anyone other than God and his glorified son Jesus.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:44 am
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Olla wrote:


The Encyclopædia Britannica says that “during the first three centuries of the Christian Church, . . . there was no Christian art, and the church generally resisted it with all its might. Clement of Alexandria, for example, criticized religious (pagan) art in that it encouraged people to worship that which is created rather than the Creator.”


This is the truth from the Holy Scripture



There were no Michelangelos, Da Vincis, Raphaels .... but we have been blessed with them and their visual prayers to the Almighty. The prohibition rather supposes the utmost stupidity of a believer if it is feared that a picture can be seen as God. One can admire the human skill and ingenuity that can be seen in the Sistine Chapel artwork, but there is little danger of viewing the murals as God Almighty. They were done for him not against him.

Today we use the word "worship" in ordinary speech with the meaning of admire or like. Those who honour athletes, artists and saints do not actually worship them. Honour is something different from worship. Man has come a long way from believing idols are gods. The command is against setting up images to OTHER gods, since Yahweh says he is jealous and doesn't want rivals, which is fair enough. But honouring his family and his friends wouldn't incur his jealously or his wrath, one presumes.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:46 am
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Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

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marco wrote:

paarsurrey1 wrote:



I am not a Catholic. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. We Muslims believe and love Jesus and Mary and that they were truthful persons as we believe in and love Moses and his mother.
The followers of Jesus must, as is evident, follow Jesus' teachings and his acts/deeds and not the teachings of Pauline-Christianity/Paul's teachings and his deeds/acts.
The point a very big point is whether Jesus gave the teaching to worship Mary and or whether Jesus himself worship Mary if he did not do anything like that why should his followers worship her?!

Regards


My kindest regards to you, paarsurrey; I am pleased to hear you are an Ahmadi.

The Roman Catholic position on Mary is that she is given HONOUR (technically called hyperdulia) because she was favoured by God. She is NOT worshipped, which would be blasphemous. Only God is worshipped.

Jesus gave no instruction about worshipping anyone - including himself - other than the Father.

Best wishes.


Thanks for appreciating of me as being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
We Muslims also give much respect to Mary and Quran ranks her as "Siddiqa", a rank next to messengers/prophets:

The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
Read More: Short English Commentary | Detailed English Commentary
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=75

Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:12 am
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Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

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paarsurrey1 wrote:

marco wrote:

paarsurrey1 wrote:



I am not a Catholic. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. We Muslims believe and love Jesus and Mary and that they were truthful persons as we believe in and love Moses and his mother.
The followers of Jesus must, as is evident, follow Jesus' teachings and his acts/deeds and not the teachings of Pauline-Christianity/Paul's teachings and his deeds/acts.
The point a very big point is whether Jesus gave the teaching to worship Mary and or whether Jesus himself worship Mary if he did not do anything like that why should his followers worship her?!

Regards


My kindest regards to you, paarsurrey; I am pleased to hear you are an Ahmadi.

The Roman Catholic position on Mary is that she is given HONOUR (technically called hyperdulia) because she was favoured by God. She is NOT worshipped, which would be blasphemous. Only God is worshipped.

Jesus gave no instruction about worshipping anyone - including himself - other than the Father.

Best wishes.


Thanks for appreciating of me as being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
We Muslims also give much respect to Mary and Quran ranks her as "Siddiqa", a rank next to messengers/prophets:

The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
Read More: Short English Commentary | Detailed English Commentary
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=75

Regards


I am full of admiration for the way Ahmadi Muslims conduct themselves. But that does not mean I agree with all you say! I can go along with what you say about Jesus and Mary - as you point out, they were human who ate food. So was Muhammad.

What I disagree with is a quotation from the verses you referred to above, from the Quran.


" [5:81] Thou shalt see many of them taking the disbelievers as their friends. Surely, evil is that which they themselves have sent on before for themselves; with the result that Allah is displeased with them; and in this punishment they shall abide. "

That causes division in communities where people refuse to mix and meet new friends. This leads to misunderstanding. the same divisions can exist between Catholic and Protestant, where one group misunderstands the other, and they do not mix. We are all humans and we should first of all regard each other as family.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:42 am
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Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

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[Replying to post 23 by marco]

Quote:
marco wrote:
I am full of admiration for the way Ahmadi Muslims conduct themselves. But that does not mean I agree with all you say! I can go along with what you say about Jesus and Mary - as you point out, they were human who ate food. So was Muhammad.

What I disagree with is a quotation from the verses you referred to above, from the Quran.

" [5:81] Thou shalt see many of them taking the disbelievers as their friends. Surely, evil is that which they themselves have sent on before for themselves; with the result that Allah is displeased with them; and in this punishment they shall abide. "

That causes division in communities where people refuse to mix and meet new friends. This leads to misunderstanding. the same divisions can exist between Catholic and Protestant, where one group misunderstands the other, and they do not mix. We are all humans and we should first of all regard each other as family.


Muhammad under the guidance of Word of God established a most equitable, peaceful and rational society starting from Mecca, Medina and when Mecca became free under his control to the whole of the Arabian Peninsula and of course then in the whole world.
Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone and he was not trained to fight. Was he, please?
But it is off-topic here so we move to a new thread in the Forum. Right, please?
Regards

_____________
New thread opened "Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone. Did he?"
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33318&highlight=

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:22 pm
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Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

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paarsurrey1 wrote:


But it is off-topic here so we move to a new thread in the Forum.


Muhammad was a soldier-trader. He is today effectively worshipped by Muslims, for if unbelievers draw pictures of him, they can be killed. I think that amounts to worship.

Mary is NOT worshipped by Catholics. She is honoured.

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