Worship of Mary not Biblical

A place to discuss Catholic topics and issues

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12313
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by marco »

Olla wrote:
The Encyclopædia Britannica says that “during the first three centuries of the Christian Church, . . . there was no Christian art, and the church generally resisted it with all its might. Clement of Alexandria, for example, criticized religious (pagan) art in that it encouraged people to worship that which is created rather than the Creator.�


This is the truth from the Holy Scripture

There were no Michelangelos, Da Vincis, Raphaels .... but we have been blessed with them and their visual prayers to the Almighty. The prohibition rather supposes the utmost stupidity of a believer if it is feared that a picture can be seen as God. One can admire the human skill and ingenuity that can be seen in the Sistine Chapel artwork, but there is little danger of viewing the murals as God Almighty. They were done for him not against him.

Today we use the word "worship" in ordinary speech with the meaning of admire or like. Those who honour athletes, artists and saints do not actually worship them. Honour is something different from worship. Man has come a long way from believing idols are gods. The command is against setting up images to OTHER gods, since Yahweh says he is jealous and doesn't want rivals, which is fair enough. But honouring his family and his friends wouldn't incur his jealously or his wrath, one presumes.

paarsurrey1
Sage
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

Post by paarsurrey1 »

marco wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:

I am not a Catholic. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. We Muslims believe and love Jesus and Mary and that they were truthful persons as we believe in and love Moses and his mother.
The followers of Jesus must, as is evident, follow Jesus' teachings and his acts/deeds and not the teachings of Pauline-Christianity/Paul's teachings and his deeds/acts.
The point a very big point is whether Jesus gave the teaching to worship Mary and or whether Jesus himself worship Mary if he did not do anything like that why should his followers worship her?!

Regards
My kindest regards to you, paarsurrey; I am pleased to hear you are an Ahmadi.

The Roman Catholic position on Mary is that she is given HONOUR (technically called hyperdulia) because she was favoured by God. She is NOT worshipped, which would be blasphemous. Only God is worshipped.

Jesus gave no instruction about worshipping anyone - including himself - other than the Father.

Best wishes.
Thanks for appreciating of me as being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
We Muslims also give much respect to Mary and Quran ranks her as "Siddiqa", a rank next to messengers/prophets:

The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
Read More: Short English Commentary | Detailed English Commentary
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 5&verse=75

Regards

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12313
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

Post by marco »

paarsurrey1 wrote:
marco wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:

I am not a Catholic. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. We Muslims believe and love Jesus and Mary and that they were truthful persons as we believe in and love Moses and his mother.
The followers of Jesus must, as is evident, follow Jesus' teachings and his acts/deeds and not the teachings of Pauline-Christianity/Paul's teachings and his deeds/acts.
The point a very big point is whether Jesus gave the teaching to worship Mary and or whether Jesus himself worship Mary if he did not do anything like that why should his followers worship her?!

Regards
My kindest regards to you, paarsurrey; I am pleased to hear you are an Ahmadi.

The Roman Catholic position on Mary is that she is given HONOUR (technically called hyperdulia) because she was favoured by God. She is NOT worshipped, which would be blasphemous. Only God is worshipped.

Jesus gave no instruction about worshipping anyone - including himself - other than the Father.

Best wishes.
Thanks for appreciating of me as being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
We Muslims also give much respect to Mary and Quran ranks her as "Siddiqa", a rank next to messengers/prophets:

The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
Read More: Short English Commentary | Detailed English Commentary
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 5&verse=75

Regards
I am full of admiration for the way Ahmadi Muslims conduct themselves. But that does not mean I agree with all you say! I can go along with what you say about Jesus and Mary - as you point out, they were human who ate food. So was Muhammad.

What I disagree with is a quotation from the verses you referred to above, from the Quran.


" [5:81] Thou shalt see many of them taking the disbelievers as their friends. Surely, evil is that which they themselves have sent on before for themselves; with the result that Allah is displeased with them; and in this punishment they shall abide. "

That causes division in communities where people refuse to mix and meet new friends. This leads to misunderstanding. the same divisions can exist between Catholic and Protestant, where one group misunderstands the other, and they do not mix. We are all humans and we should first of all regard each other as family.

paarsurrey1
Sage
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

Post by paarsurrey1 »

[Replying to post 23 by marco]
marco wrote:
I am full of admiration for the way Ahmadi Muslims conduct themselves. But that does not mean I agree with all you say! I can go along with what you say about Jesus and Mary - as you point out, they were human who ate food. So was Muhammad.

What I disagree with is a quotation from the verses you referred to above, from the Quran.

" [5:81] Thou shalt see many of them taking the disbelievers as their friends. Surely, evil is that which they themselves have sent on before for themselves; with the result that Allah is displeased with them; and in this punishment they shall abide. "

That causes division in communities where people refuse to mix and meet new friends. This leads to misunderstanding. the same divisions can exist between Catholic and Protestant, where one group misunderstands the other, and they do not mix. We are all humans and we should first of all regard each other as family.
Muhammad under the guidance of Word of God established a most equitable, peaceful and rational society starting from Mecca, Medina and when Mecca became free under his control to the whole of the Arabian Peninsula and of course then in the whole world.
Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone and he was not trained to fight. Was he, please?
But it is off-topic here so we move to a new thread in the Forum. Right, please?
Regards

_____________
New thread opened "Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone. Did he?"
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... highlight=

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12313
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Worship of Mary not Biblical

Post by marco »

paarsurrey1 wrote:
But it is off-topic here so we move to a new thread in the Forum.
Muhammad was a soldier-trader. He is today effectively worshipped by Muslims, for if unbelievers draw pictures of him, they can be killed. I think that amounts to worship.

Mary is NOT worshipped by Catholics. She is honoured.

Post Reply