The Determination of the Christian - The Confidence...

[Aetixintro]

Allow me to write to you about the determination of the Christian. Now let's imagine that a genuine Christian wants to go to Heaven and works/lives toward such a goal. Further then, can the confidence of a Christian, the very deep feeling of "something out there", Heaven and God, be determined as confidence toward Heaven?

It seems common to believe, among the non-believers, that Christians are somehow hounded to Heaven by a fear of Hell. However, it's my opinion that Hell is rather remote and that the whole package of what Heaven represents, tranquility, goodness, etc., makes it so definitely worthwhile. If Hell may become a possibility, it seems rather the reality that all religious aspects are ignored altogether so that Hell is no longer a thought in the mind of a person "eligible" for such a place.

Your thoughts? Comments?

[Divine Insight]

Your thoughts? Comments?

My first thought is to ask, "What is this religion supposed to be about?"

Is this religion supposed to be about a strong desire to live forever in some imagined paradise?

I thought the religion was supposed about moral character?

I think many non-believers would like to live forever in a paradise. But it would seem to me that if they gave this reason as their motivation to want to become a Christian most Christians would actually say that this is the "wrong" motivation.

In fact, back when I was a Christian I'm pretty sure my church would consider that to be the wrong motivation entirely.

That's my thoughts.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 1 by Aetixintro]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. Are you agreeing with Divine Insight's view of Christianity that it says one's moral character is the point? And that this moral character is brought about by the Christian's own determination and is what gets them Heaven? Are you saying that a vague hope of Heaven is what drives the Christian, rather than fear of Hell? Are you saying something else?

[Inigo Montoya]

[Replying to post 3 by The Tanager]

If I understand the OP at all, I think it's in the ballpark. I can't prove it, of course, but it's my feeling that the hope of another life after this one is the real motivation. Much more so than a fear of any "hell." I rather think there's far less genuine belief in a hell amongst the religious than there is a longing for another life.

Me, I think it's all a pile of you know what. But watching my father die, even I can find myself wishing I could believe it were true, and have never been more sure of the need to believe these things and where that need comes from. The comfort promised by these stories is like nothing else on offer.

[Divine Insight]

Me, I think it's all a pile of you know what. But watching my father die, even I can find myself wishing I could believe it were true, and have never been more sure of the need to believe these things and where that need comes from. The comfort promised by these stories is like nothing else on offer.

I would suggest that it's actually wrong that there is nothing else like it on offer. There are plenty of other religions that embrace life after death. They just don't focus on this as the centerfold of their theology.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 3 by The Tanager]

If I understand the OP at all, I think it's in the ballpark. I can't prove it, of course, but it's my feeling that the hope of another life after this one is the real motivation. Much more so than a fear of any "hell." I rather think there's far less genuine belief in a hell amongst the religious than there is a longing for another life.

Me, I think it's all a pile of you know what. But watching my father die, even I can find myself wishing I could believe it were true, and have never been more sure of the need to believe these things and where that need comes from. The comfort promised by these stories is like nothing else on offer.

I think I would agree with you when comparing those two motivations against each other. Myself, and most of the Christians I engage with in my everyday life, would say the main motivation is actually neither of these, though. Not that there isn't a longing for Heaven, but that this isn't the motivation for being a Christian. It would ultimately come from what we feel is a real encounter here and now with God and what this means for our life right now and how it makes sense of reality right now.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 1 by Aetixintro]

can the confidence of a Christian, the very deep feeling of "something out there", Heaven and God, be determined as confidence toward Heaven?

If you mean are they certain, are they confident that Heaven exists, then yes, by sheer definition, the confidence of a Christian is confidence towards Heaven. They hope, they believe, it exists.
Still says nothing about the reality of the issue, the truth of the matter.

It seems common to believe, among the non-believers, that Christians are somehow hounded to Heaven by a fear of Hell

Gee...I wonder why? Is it because of Christian texts and dogmas that preach about Hell being a bad place, something to be avoided, something that can only be avoided by following Christianity?
I've spoken to many Christians, and have been one myself. Not all, but some were indeed afraid of Hell, of going there, and stated (in one way or another) that one of the reasons for them being Christian is to avoid Hell.

However, it's my opinion that Hell is rather remote

And there are people with opinions different to yours, who fear it as a very real threat.